Comment by aethertap | Hacker News Reader

Comment by aethertap | Hacker News Reader

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I think you're right that guns are probably a necessity to some extent, but I would rather spend the money on feeding my neighbors as much as possible rather than fighting them. I ran some quick numbers on webstaurantsupply.com, and for a simple "donut diet"[1] you can feed 100 people 1800 kCal/day for nearly a month for $1000 (the price of a decent quality rifle where I live).

I've been trying to work out a way to organize neighborhood-level basic essentials storages on the cheap, so that people in that kind of situation can afford to take care of themselves until the power comes back on. Food is pretty easy, but water and sanitation are a bit more problematic so far.

[1] - just calories to make it over the hump, this is not health food. Ingredients are white flour, white sugar, vegetable oil, and some white rice for the people who can't do the wheat products. Add vitamin pills to prevent deficiency diseases and you can stay functional for a long time at about $0.30/day.

the point is, money stops being worth anything in this scenario. you can't eat it and you can't drink it. money is based on trust and when civilization collapses, trust disappears.

Everybody realises that, the point he was making was that $1000 is better invested in storage now than a gun.

Everybody assumes that in an end of the world scenario that we all end up fighting for food, however the better plan, and to be honest the one that served society well in the past, was that we become farmers. Without tractors we'll have plenty of farmland that needs manual labour.

It would be nice if it was codified into law that our fallback plan was to redistribute farmland. Then there is no need for roving biker gangs fighting for the last can of tuna. We'll just step away from the now dead computers and pick up a hoe.

Except that you need to survive the months between planting the seeds and harvest. Also when 90% of crops fail because of lack of modern agriculture tech and farming experience, don't expect big part of people to just lie down and die from hunger. You will have fighting until the food supply stabilizes (which does involve cutting down population a lot).

That doesn't make sense, why would the current crops in the ground not be usable? Why would the food in storage right now not be usable?

Saying that 90% of crops would fail is kind of an over statement. Organic farms that don't use fertilisers are quite successful. The issue is planing and sowing, all of which the extra man power can assist with. Instead of a tractor you have people.

All that's needed is a plan, where farmers us the extra labour until machines can be gotten back on line. No need for a lawless society.

Bootstrapping the reeducation of enough people to effectively get them intensive-gardening in that kind of a situation would be a massive challenge, but if enough people did the feed-your-neighbors preparedness approach we might have enough time to get it done. If we were looking at a long-term scenario I think I'd want to have at least a year of grace period to get people rolling. Thinking back to all the mistakes I made starting my own farm, if my life had been depending on success I'd most likely be dead, or would have survived solely by eating my sheep...

Cuba is an interesting example of a place that had to rapidly adopt a low-power lifestyle, and they actually seem to have done it with grace. There might be a good case there to study for clues about what works. They have the advantage of not having to contend with long, cold winters though, which is a critical difference for most of North America.

Was your lack of success partly due to no seeking the knowledge of other or not being give the help?

I would imagine that secretly farmers want other local farmers to not do as well, so that there is less competition for their produce, however you'd know better than me.

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