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Comment by jasonkester | Hacker News Reader

Ironic that an app calling itself "Hemingway" would recommend against the word "Utilize". As a key example of "things to avoid" no less.

Utilized in one of the more memorable exchanges in The Sun Also Rises:

"Let us rejoice in our blessings. Let us utilize the fowls of the air. Let us utilize the product of the vine. Will you utilize a little, brother?"

... and so on for nearly ten pages, utilizing wine, pubs, etc.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fAcAd5gFdB0C&lpg=PP1&dq=h...

I bet if you apply this tool to more of his writing, you'd find it neutered it completely, removing much of the magic that makes it so great.

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>Ironic that an app calling itself "Hemingway" would recommend against the word "Utilize".

>Utilized in one of the more memorable exchanges in The Sun Also Rises:

>"Let us rejoice in our blessings. Let us utilize the fowls of the air. Let us utilize the product of the vine. Will you utilize a little, brother?"

First of all, that's a character speaking, not Hemingway narrating. In the same book, Hemingway also writes in the voice of a Spanish laborer and other characters with patterns of speech that we would not ascribe to him.

Second, in that passage, Jake is playing off the French verb "utiliser". In essence, he's being ironic -- a favored pastime of the lost generation. So this is all dialogue, not Hemingway narrating.

You'd be hard pressed to find the word "utilize" in Hemingway's narration. (awaiting someone with a counterexample...3..2..1)

"Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use"

I'm guessing the app is called Hemingway because it promotes simpler writing in general (a good thing, I think), not because it will make you write /exactly/ like Hemingway!

Hemingway App is a tool useful is you're not a great writer. If you want to write something original, or magic, you better not use it.

I understand that you might not be criticizing the app directly, but as you are the top comment, I thought it would be useful as a reminder.

I do think that attempts to create something original can be helped by this, but only if it's used carefully. After I've reworked something many times, the parts I've fiddled with the most are often too complicated and obscure.

I've gotten a bit of use out of this, but only by throwing it at things which are already written and edited, and then ignoring most of it's suggestions. I end up treating it as a list of things to check, not a list of problems to fix.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think you can use it to quickly identify passages that may need more work. As with all suggestions, take them with a grain of salt, but so far even with highly edited work, I find it can be useful.

So you're one of those people who like to use "utilize." I've always thought the word is used willy-nilly by people with feeble minds in order to "sound fancy," but you seem like an alright guy.

Could you tell me why you'd want to use "utilize" instead of "use"? Do you intend a different meaning e.g. make-use-of-in-unexpeded-way, or do you see them as synonyms?

To me, it sounds horrible---a buzzword and a French-isism (The French verb to use is utiliser).

So you're one of those people who like to use "utilize."

Far from it. Looks like this is the first time I've ever typed it:

https://hn.algolia.com/?q=jasonkester+utilize#!/all/forever/...

Hemingway is, though. A quick google search shows that he also has written "helpfully" a few times in his novels, which is another forbidden word in the app we're discussing.

That's what we're doing, by the way: discussing a piece of software. Try not to get too worked up.

I think "helpfully" -- in a helpful manner -- is a fine word, nevermind the grammar marms. I suspect Hemingway did as well.

However, he tried to avoid words like "utilize" that he could easily replace with shorter, more powerful words without losing any expressiveness.

> Try not to get too worked up.

No personal slights, please.

The software calls out "helpfully" because it's an adverb, a part of speech that's good in small doses (according to the creators of the software).

"That's what we're doing, by the way: discussing a piece of software. Try not to get too worked up."

I see what you're doing. Good words.

I don't know whether Hemingway liked using 'utilize' or not. But I expect he used different rules in writing dialogue than in writing narrative. Word usage in dialogue can be used to give us cues about the character speaking. E.g., that he's the sort of person who pontificates by using words like 'utilize'. (Word usage in narrative can even be used to give us cues about the narrator.) I don't know enough to tell whether that's what Hemingway was doing in the quoted dialogue. But good writers often violate usage rules when writing fiction that they'd normally apply to themselves, e.g., when writing an essay.

I'll bite. I get really mad when people do this.

  people - old french / latin
  feeble - old french
  mind - old english, but roots in germanic
  synonym - greek / latin
  expede - I think this doesn't mean what you think it means, but latin.
  horrible - old french

The list goes on. http://etymonline.com/index.php

To me, "utilize" means to use properly. It has a positive connotation that "use" does not.

edit: dictionary.com seems to agree. "to put to use; turn to profitable account"

Utilize is "use" but focusing on the thing being used rather than what it's used for.

I utilized my calculus textbook to prop up my monitor. I used my calculus textbook to prop up my monitor.

In the first, I'm looking for a use for the book and that's what I could do with it. In the second, I need to raise my monitor, and the calculus book was handy.

I also consider it to mean proper use of something. But figured it was just me ascribing extra meaning.

For instance, (assuming no context is provided) if someone said they utilized a fire extinguisher I would assume they meant to put out a fire. If they said they used a fire extinguisher, I would be wondering what they used it for (to propel an office chair , kill a mouse, cool their beer). Context of course almost always exists.

The first definiton of "use" (as a verb with an object) is very similar:

"1. to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife."

Hemingway didn't write very Hemingwayish. That is, he didn't write the way many people caricaturize him. He has a big vocabulary and can, in fact, create more than a 5-word sentence.

That being said, "utilize" is one of my peeves, too. "Utilize" rather than "use" and "gift" as a verb. We hates them, we does.

This is the key point. He tended to use active voice, single clauses, and simple words. None of that is the same as small sentences and a limited vocabulary.

His approach was as simple as possible, but unlike what this app creates, no simpler.

Does it recommend against it if it is part of dialogue?

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