Comment by incision | Hacker News Reader

Comment by incision | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

>'During our Secret Santa drive, volunteers sometimes refused to drop gifts at houses with TVs inside.'

This brought back memories.

Part of my first 'job' (minimum wage program for at-risk youth) was pickup / delivery and otherwise making use of donations to various county programs.

People were incredibly indignant about who might receive some benefit from stuff that was often just a step above garbage. It wasn't even a matter of TV, just seeing people living in something above total squalor (battered women sleeping on 'beds' made out of doors and 2x4s in a converted toolshed - how luxurious) pissed people off.

>'Gray computer monitors lined one wall.'

Memories here too.

For every 20 machines to come through the door we could piece together one capable of running the GED training app at the heart of our computer lab.

>'When I decided to quit, friends told me that the end of idealism is the beginning of awareness, that awareness is power, even when it shuts you down.'

I think so.

Armchair idealists, who lack the conviction of the active or the awareness of the defeated can be quite a pain as they deal exclusively in 'should'. Should doesn't feed anyone, but does work to disempower those who do.

> People were incredibly indignant about who might receive some benefit from stuff that was often just a step above garbage.

This is a quite fascinating phenomenon psychologically that one has to face when meeting low income people: They don't necessarily want most the things you think they should want most. I remember being shocked by seeing "poor people" have IPods and IPhones or similar "luxurious" electronics while complaining that they don't have money for rent. One part of it is that electronics are actually very cheap compared to living expenses. The other part is that it does not matter what your income level is, there is still a desire for self-actualization. This last point is well argued in this following quote:

When you actually meet people living in tough conditions, you realize that they don’t exactly make up dreams for their lives in some UN-approved sequence; water first, food next, healthcare third, money fourth, philosophy when I am rich, alcohol and marijuana never. ... Humans are capable of nurturing rockstar dreams even while they are schlepping their twenty-miles-a-day to fetch water. There is a reason there is music and art in all societies, not just the privileged ones. (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/07/31/the-quality-of-life/)

While I don't know exactly how, I think the insight that the receivers of social security are not primarily motivated to climb the Maslow hierarchy one level at the time, but rather shopping all levels at the same time, could be useful to build better interventions.

>'One part of it is that electronics are actually very cheap compared to living expenses.'

Cheap relative to living expenses and childcare in particular. Years ago, it was cable TV to keep kids off the street while parents were at work - now it's something with a touchscreen.

>'When you actually meet people living in tough conditions...there is music and art in all societies, not just the privileged ones.'

Nice quote.

I think the indiscretions often come back to one thing - stress and seeking to relieve it.

Looking back my own experience, the really tough thing about being poor wasn't lacking any specific thing it was the crushing stress of constantly teetering on the brink and exhausting effort to keep from toppling.

I think the discipline of a life without small indulgences makes a person 'brittle' and invites the risk of outright breaking when some inevitable disruption is beyond your control.

Also, the stress I refer to is something I believe is frequently misunderstood and grossly underestimated. Having ample means and choosing to live spartan or fasting periodically is a toy version of actual hardship.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com