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Comment by bri3d | Hacker News Reader

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into the 0.4% sales tax in 2004, but ended up with only years of disruptive highway construction leading to a privatized tollway and fake Bus Rapid Transit. We didn't even get real BRT as the buses run in the private toll lanes rather than their own grade and the buses board and deboard just like a normal bus (supposedly the "train style" buses couldn't make it up a hill on the highway).

The Denver area really does have good mass transit, though - the Southwest suburbs are now well-served by light rail, the airport will have rail service soon, and the bus system is reasonable (as bus systems go), albeit with extremely high fares.

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Also longtime Boulder resident here. Yes, agreed 100%. Boulder and surrounding NW communities really got the shit end of the stick here. The phony BRT seems little different than what is in place now (just replace the ABX sign with BRT, and there you go), but something that we will probably have to live with for a generation at least. I don’t have high hopes for how the buses will perform during snow storms (unlike rail which has fewer problems in inclement weather). How will this be considered an improvement is beyond me. What is really disappointing is Boulder residents and politicians are just rolling over dead instead of either demanding the service they were promised and voted for or trying to get their tax money back. And I don’t expect RTD will ever be able to pass another tax increase ballot measure ever again. The rest of Denver-metro has their train (already or soon), so they won’t vote for another tax increase and neither will Boulder given how much they have been shafted in the past.

Apart from the NW corridor complete fiasco, yes FasTracks is really quite nice in other areas of Denver-metro.

> how the buses will perform during snow storms

Depends greatly on how well you treat the roads. I'm from Norway, and we have areas where you'll not be able to see over the snow when driving at certain times of winter, and keeping the buses running is usually not a big problem, as long as the roads gets cleared regularly.

> unlike rail which has fewer problems in inclement weather

... also depends on how prepared they are. I now live in the UK, and here a few cm of snow causes the train network to grind to a stand-still while they struggle to keep the track clear, while in Norway, the trains on many lines are equipped with snow-ploughs during the winter.

Denver is only about 5500ft in elevation, is much lower in latitude than Norway, and gets about 300 days of sunshine per year. But, Denver does see 3-5ft snow storms every 5 years or so (i.e. they have the snow removal equipment and know-how). The rail would have been so much better than the bus will be.

> The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal

No kidding. Last I heard the proposed Light Rail extension might not even make it to Boulder. Longmont and Lafayette are most likely screwed. Personally I'd like to see a justification for how the rail west to Golden (which stops short no less) got priority over the airport or Boulder.

> The Denver area really does have good mass transit, though

Agreed. As far as American mass transit systems go RTD is pretty good. At least it's an integrated system unlike the mess in the SF Bay area.

36 is starting to show a lot of progress for the dedicated bus lanes and the train tracks which will eventually go to Longmont. It was always the plan that the south and airport would go first. The north is scheduled to be done in 2017 I believe.

36 isn't showing any progress for train tracks - they're not building any!

There's going to be light rail to South Westminster (South of 72nd), but the train tracks to Longmont are only being "researched," aren't part of this phase of construction, and are one of the reasons RTD are trying to pass an additional 0.4% sales tax.

The original concept was that the Northwest Rail project would proceed along with the other rail projects - to the point that housing developments like Steel Yards were built next to Boulder Junction in anticipation of the "coming train station." The original project plan involved running RTD and BNSF freight trains on the same shared, standard-width, diesel-powered rail line, not unlike Caltrain in the Bay. You can see that map here: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/nw/2009-0715_NWR_... (stations in Red were purportedly "funded" by the 2004 tax).

That plan was scrapped for a variety of reasons: RTD couldn't come to an agreement with BNSF, they would have had to use eminent domain and pay a lot to build a rail yard, and they straight up mismanaged and ran out of money.

The new plan is that there's no plan: RTD are conducting a "Northwest Area Mobility Study" and even if an additional tax were to pass, it's unlikely we'd see a working rail line until the mid-2020s at the earliest: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/nw_1

You definitely seem to know more about it than me, but I question your assertion that there hasn't been any rail construction north of 72nd. Some of the construction, such as raising the bridge at 128, seems strange if the construction is only for buses.

I am somewhat glad that the diesel-powered rail didn't work out. I would much rather have some type of electric-powered rail. But any rail line is better than none.

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into...

I wonder if, in a political science game theory sense, this is similar to the "red states get the most government spending" phenomenon. That is, it's unlikely that the people of Boulder would ever vote against rapid transit projects. So, a rapid transit program can have political success without serving those "reliable" voters as well as it serves more fickle areas, whose votes could change if they become unhappy with the program.

Yes, that is exactly it. Boulder has been the biggest proponent of public transit, but gets the least in return. Former Democratic Colorado state legislator Ron Tupa a while back used to make an issue of this. If memory serves correct, it was city of Boulder that originally set up the successful HOP bus service not RTD (it was eventually absorbed into RTD). Apparently there is no (political) upshot for RTD to serve Boulder in any decent fashion. But this can only last so long before even Boulderites get fed up. My hunch is another tax increase would not pass. Of course, most of the FasTracks system will be complete soon so now so that does not matter except if you live in the neglected NW corridor, of course.

Not that they can easily solve this, but unless you live very close to a station or do the park n ride thing (no good if using for parties) - the southbound rails leave you in the middle of dark suburbia. So yes, you can skip out on a bit of driving down I-25. It's neat but I'd be surprised to hear that a significant percentage of the population is "well served".

Thank you for pointing this out. Denver has great transport because they haven't broken ground northward yet.

The Northwest line is already under construction to Arvada, correct? I believe they are working westward right now.

As for the line up to Boulder, blame the expense of building a completely separate right-of-way along the BNSF Brush Subdivision, a very busy funnel for coal trains :-/

"South Westminster" - basically, 72nd and Federal.

They weren't trying to build separate right-of-way - they were trying to lease the existing BNSF tracks:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_20782125/rtd-stunned-by-bnsfs-c...

You're right that the busy freight corridor is a lot of the problem, though.

There is a separate line to Arvada, I believe it's the Gold line. That's still on track.

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