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Comment by dlgeek | Hacker News Reader

I've found with businesses like this (though not 1&1 specifically), the magic word is "chargeback". It helps you cut through the bullshit because if they get too high a percentage of chargebacks, their credit card processing fees go up (and they can even lose the ability to charge cards).

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This experience reminds me of when I looked up my credit report the first time. You know, that 'free' deal to see the score and all.

Turns out I was unwittingly put into a monthly plan, after an undisclosed-as-trial period with no refund. In order to cancel, I waited for about thirty minutes for an agent, then said "No, I would not like to continue" for another thirty minutes. These guys were ran by Experian.

I wonder how "chargeback" would be received by such a company.

Note that the free annual credit report is a real thing, government mandated, but of course the agencies don't advertise it. Instead, they advertise stuff that sounds like it, but is a ripoff.

Visit annualcreditreport.com for the real thing. They might still try to upsell you, but if you can resist that, it's legitimate.

I know what you're saying but a chargeback is really for a charge that you believe is fraudulent/have no idea why it was made. That's certainly not the case here. So folks like 1&1 usually have proof that you willingly signed up for the charge. If that happens you can be blacklisted and other merchants suddenly won't accept your card. It then costs $99 to get off that list.

Believe it or not a chargeback doesn't have to be for things you consider fradulent. We see people all of the time chargeback for services provided. All you need to do is issue the chargeback. 99.99% of the time it will go through

I know it's abused like this as you say. The point is that for merchants for whom there's a lot of buyer remorse (dating sites etc) they enact clear steps to show you knew what you were doing and will then dispute those chargebacks (they have to or else they will get dropped)

Having been in the merchant system for a long while, there's really nothing the merchant can do to prove you knew what you were doing and agreed to the charges. As a consumer I can like it, as a merchant it really pisses me off sometimes

Merchants very very rarely win chargebacks. They can represent all they want with proper documentation, and they may even win the first chargeback, but that win can easily be reversed by the credit card company, if the customer is persistent enough, with no explanation to the merchant. I know this because I've worked in credit card processing.

So any time you run into an issue with a merchant, if they look like they are acting in bad faith, you should just chargeback and stop wasting your time.

You willingly signed up for the charge, then you canceled (or at least made a reasonable effort to inform them that you wish to cancel), and any charges beyond that point are fraudulent. "Fraud" isn't just "someone stole my card". "The merchant charged me when they shouldn't have" qualifies just fine.

You're not wrong. But then they seem to be sending the accounts to collections.

I had a similar experience with GoDaddy. The magic trick was to put it in writing. An email was sufficient, make sure you are explicit - "Thank you for my free trial that commenced on xx/xx/xxxx. I do not wish to proceed. Please cancel my account"

Then, when / if they reply with whatever upsell they offer, I replied with - "I sent you this email on xx/xx/xxxx. Again I repeat, I want to cancel my account. If you charge me, I will raise this with my bank as an invalid transaction"

When I got charged, I printed off the emails (there were 3 incidents, 12 - 15 pages per incident) and I emailed this to the bank. Like magic! The bank reversed the transactions.

Keep the emails somewhere safe. If a collections agent were to call, I would supply them with the 12 - 15 pages.

Remember, when you initiate the chargeback, it is the vendors responsibility to prove you initiated the purchase. Not the other way around.

especially in the hosting industry, chargebacks are usually a HUGE pain in the butt for businesses to handle. In most cases where a chargeback would make sense I would go as far as to keep trying to talk to support to get the issue resolved. In 1&1's case.... no holds barred :P

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