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Comment by opendais | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone else feel this is unethical?

You are basically paying someone to circumvent the controls the price structure the employer has in place. This works because the front desk is empowered to make sure the customer is happy and therefore isn't investigated for every 'comp' that is provided to a customer.

However, that isn't the intention of the power the employer granted to the employee.

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"Does anyone else feel this is unethical?"

Well on the surface yes. And probably yes. But read on.

"You are basically paying someone to circumvent the controls the price structure the employer has in place."

(Now I'm for the defense here and will argue the other side of this).

Well let's look at it from the employers point of view.

- They want to keep employees happy. So as long as this doesn't happen to much they will probably look the other way. (Cheaper than raising wages).

- They want to keep guests, especially desirable "clued in" guests happy. After all this guest now feels as if they got away with something and got a boost in their mental state (source: attitude of the OP)

- God knows if Jack Nicholson walks into your hotel and your front desks comps him for internet (just because he smiles and says "hi" in a nice way) the employee will feel good and the employer will probably feel it is ok as well. (They very well might have a policy for this special treatment of course but don't for tipping simply because they can't openly say that it would create all sorts of havoc).

I once had an employee many years ago who told me he was going to help his wife with her business on my time a small bit. (In so many words, he didn't say exactly that). I was ok with it because I figured he was going to do it anyway and I might as well suck it up.

Besides, and most importantly, if his wife's business made money he wouldn't be as quick to want a raise from me. If I told him "absolutely not, no personal business on my time" he would, in theory, be more likely to need to get a raise since his wife's business wouldn't contribute to the family income. All the details of this matter of course (no hard and fast rule) but over time the situation that I had allowed worked to my advantage.

I'm all for gray areas. I just think the problem is I'm really, really uncomfortable with quid pro quo that resembles bribery.

Let me provide a counter example...

Politicians want campaign contributions which directly benefit their goals and by extension the constituents who voted for them. [Frontdesk enjoys the extra money and reduces demand for raises].

Politicians can do small favors and not get caught. However, the power is intended to be used in the interest of all constituents. [Frontdesk is empowered to comp when it benefits their employer's interests].

I'm not seeing this as significantly different...and those 'small favors' have a tendency to grow as the person receiving the money finds themselves needing to do more and more to 'outdo' the other guy. After all, if I can bribe the other frontdesk guy for $5...why should I give you $20?

Its a very, very slippery slope that makes me uncomfortable.

I'm not saying these are terrible people. I'm just saying it is shady/unethical.

Yes, and this sort of thing is common in bars. But IMO the person behind counter is the one with the moral dilemma.

As a customer, it's not my job to decide where the line is drawn between great service and collusion against the establishment.

Yes, but Bars & Restaurants there is the socially agreed upon expectation that the appropriate people are tipped. Its a social norm that virtually everyone is aware of, including the employer when they started the business.

The 'bribe the front desk' is not in the same category imo.

I think if you aren't willing to consider where you think the line is as the customer, you are ignoring the impact of your actions which is generally not the best idea.

It'd be morally presumptuous!

It is almost by definition the agency problem. The hotel's agent has their own best interest in mind, rather than the hotel's, and can get co-opted by a small bribe.

Exactly! To elaborate, the $20 might not work if the desk clerks were paid twice as much, had benefits, and had occasional meetings with management reminding them not to take tips.

I agree. There are two paths for the hotelier.

1 - Pay employees a lot better, disallow tips, and make everything "All in" for the customers.

2 - Pay employees slightly better, and take all the discretion out of their jobs.

Yes, which is really what ethics is about isn't it?

There is the ethical thing...and then there is what allows you to get a greater reward for intentionally forcing the cost of the reward on to a 3rd party.

It is if they come back.

And this is the intention. The best case scenario, would be for me to come back to the same hotel. And tip the same front desk person. And then we build a relationship.

-I benefit because I get free stuff. -front desk benefits because they get cash. -hotel benefits because I keep coming back to the hotel (because of relationship i form with front desk attendant).

there is no need to rationalize. this is not what the hotel wants. they want you to pay for the internet.

However it is an example of successfully hacking some (non-computer) system to your advantage.

With one exception, I never [e.g. 4+ years pass] visit the same hotel/motel twice.

So to me...most of the customer is there once and never [e.g. 4+ years pass] again.

Maybe for someone who hits the same hotel/motel multiple times a year that would qualify.

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