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Comment by ginko | Hacker News Reader

Maybe it's because I'm from Europe, but I don't see what's so special about that.

Isn't the debit card number just the bank account number?

There's a few differences: 1. You have to hunt down a check or track down your account number and routing number from your bank where you have your debit card in your wallet. 2. We've found that customers are more skittish to share their bank account than their debit card number. I can try to guess why, but that's at least what we see. 3. Bank account numbers can't be verified in real-time (takes 2-3 business days) where debit card numbers can. This can lead to big issues the first time a customer gets paid and a poor initial experience.

> 1. You have to hunt down a check or track down your account number and routing number from your bank where you have your debit card in your wallet.

In the UK at least, your account number and sort code are also on your debit card?

US debit cards look identical to credit cards, except they say "debit" next to the card brand. No account or routing numbers.

NOoooooo not even remotely. That would be terrible.

The debit card number is a layer of abstraction that allows you to HIDE your bank account number from retailers. If you give someone your bank account number they can do whatever they want until you shut down that BANK account.

Someone steals your debit card or the number it's super simple to get that changed and replaced. Someone steals your bank account number it's a nightmare.

That's pretty grossly overstated. Bank account numbers are printed on checks, which don't have very high security around them at all.

If bank account numbers were as high risk as you say, we'd hear about rampant scams where waiters and cashiers at stores jotted the numbers down when you paid with a check and then drained your bank account later. That dog would have barked.

Do any restaurants anywhere accept checks?

> Someone steals your debit card or the number it's super simple to get that changed and replaced. Someone steals your bank account number it's a nightmare.

So account numbers are essentially secret?

Over here, they're like phone numbers. You need them to transfer money to someone else.

They aren't secret- some places require them for ACH direct transfers. Rent and mortgage nearly always requires it. The thing is you should keep it secure and NOT use it if you have the option to go another route.

In most of the world, giving someone your bank account number for them to pay into is routine, and won't give them the ability to do anything with your account other than send you money.

I'm very confused about this.

Does that mean you should NEVER pay anyone by cheque since it has your account number printed on it?

Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such prevalent usage of cheques, but it's seen as so dangerous to disclose a bank account number?

What can someone do with just a bank account number, and why isn't that problem being fixed?

Whats required to withdraw money from an account; the account number, routing, and some form of signature (I'm assuming ACH drops the signature requirement).

The USA is far behind on banking security. We're still using PIN numbers for debit cards and you could take my credit card and sign for any charges on it. A lot of people in the USA sign "CHECK ID" in the signature panel of their credit cards in an attempt to stop this. The idea is that if it says CHECK ID the clerk will definitely stop and check ID. But if it's not signed (which they aren's supposed to accept) or the signature is incorrect.. a store clerk will 99% of the time just pass it on. I actually never sign my credit cards because it requires a damned marker that won't look like my signature anyway.

I've never once been hassled.

> Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such prevalent usage of cheques

I'm actually thinking about writing a blog post explaining my theory behind why this is the case. Would that be interesting?

tl;dr of my theory: geographic size and decentralized gov't in the US allowed a paper cheque system to outlive other countries'

Also probably the reason slavery lasted so much longer past the end of the civil war in parts of the South. Interesting parallel I guess, as paper checks seem just about as antebellum to me now.

If someone steals your bank account number and charges you, you call your bank to reverse the transaction and block any future transactions from the thief :) did that yesterday, works like a charm.

I've never heard of banks completely blocking a company from attempting a charge. That's good, thankfully I've not experienced that.

I never understood why I need a transaction number for every wire transfer I do (this is Germany) which is sent directly by the bank via mail with no mention of the associated bank account. Account numbers are public and printed on every letter head, but the TANs are the key to withdraw money from it online. Been using it for 17 years, never had a problem. But I cursed the system a lot since it's such a hassle. Some banks even send you a piece of hardware you have to put against the screen (!) with a bar code to show you the next TAN. It's ridiculous.

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