Comment by Elepsis | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Elepsis | Hacker News Reader

The article linked to at the end (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/16/our_gim...), interestingly, is complaining about a group of young people who are asking Congress for this list of "youth bailouts":

Among other things, the coalition wants: free college tuition for low-income students who are willing to do volunteer work; the right to be covered in their parents' health insurance program until the age of 26; college loan-forgiveness programs for young people who agree to serve distressed communities after graduation; and micro loans for young entrepreneurs to start their own businesses.

... Frankly, those all sound like far smarter, better initiatives than propping up failing car manufacturers (which are, coincidentally, dominated by an older generation) or expanded government health coverage (which also disproportionately benefits older people). If that's what the 20-somethings of today "feel entitled" to, I feel pretty good about being a part of the group.

I'm sorry but I disagree (I'm a 20-something but not for much longer so I really don't think it counts).

Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem.

Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age.

I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants.

Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)

"The purpose [of volunteer work] is to show people the value of sacrifice."

No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.

What do you think the value of sacrifice means? The value in sacrifice is in the helping of other people. That's why we talk about the value of sacrifice when describing military personnel but not when we talk about suicide.

That's actually really interesting, I've always interpreted the 'value' in that phrase to be a character trait. Whereas you are saying that it's 'value' as in an equation, so putting in hours volunteering = good outcomes.

True, and excellent point, but that does not change the fact that if you are receiving some form of compensation that is on par with the work being done than it is not volunteer work in the traditional sense. It is, as was said, much closer to a government job.

> Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee.

So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'

Social security and welfare cheques are hardly quid pro quo for volunteer work. Of course not.

Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system. Welfare is a system in which society has chosen to give people money to live to prevent them from having no money at all so it's a gift not payment for any service.

Social security was never supposed to be reimbursement of money you paid into the system. It's always been a system of transfer payments - reimbursement of money other people paid into the system. That's why it worked: when it was instated, there were many more people paying into the system than receiving benefits.

The sooner people realize that, the sooner they can come to terms with its eventual bankruptcy. That's why I hate it when people repeat the myth that you're supposed to get out what you put in. It'll make for a very rude awakening when you don't.

Whoa whoa... The solvency issues of Social Security are primarily due to the Government of my parents "borrowing" money from the system that they paid into it. There are of course the exacerbating burden of of longer life expectancy that they have failed to address as well. I believe it was Al Gore who spoke about the idea of a "lock-box."

All this and generations want to call me entitled? Look you spent the money you were supposed to save. I can appreciate the social programs that result (I'm a bleeding heart) but, don't shit every where and then blame my generation for stepping in it.

Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system.

This is true only to the extent that it reimburses/rewards/repays people who actually work. It isn't really based on how much you pay, but the taxable amount of your income. Also, how long you've been working.

Interesting that this topic should come up; just this morning I received my yearly information statement from the SSI. Have been working since age 15 (according to the statement, this is how long I've been paying taxes, too). Actually am pretty astounded at how little "taxable income" I've made in my lifetime. Has absolutely _nothing_ to do with how hard I've worked.

Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?

> Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?

A SS advocate would point out that your mother probably got something.

I'll point out that the fact that your dad got more screwed than someone else by SS does not imply that said someone else didn't get screwed as well.

I think that your dad sould have been able to keep the 15% that SS took, or at least give it to your mom and you. SS advocates think otherwise.

> That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?

Yes, all Social Security advocates work in air-conditioned offices, and all people in air-conditioned offices are Social Security advocates. I love it when the world turns out to be black and white after all, instead of those messy shades of grey...

No, it makes them massively unfunded liabilities that you, me and our children will be paying out the ass for our entire lives. Congratulations.

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