On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings
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Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job.
But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this.
I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself.
If OP perseveres for what he wants as well as he whines, problem solved.
Oh and by the way, I got my MBA and worked at Denny's in 1978, so STFU and get busy.
I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in.
The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.
Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job.
Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's always been that way.
Heard of anyone who worked all their life to build up a 500K retirement and just lost 60% of it? Two decades ago I listened to a guy tell me that he paid into a pension for 30 years, and when his company went down, it was ALL GONE.
Rodney Dangerfield: "It's a jungle out there." Bank on it.
Edit: Actually, no, I can think of several friends in the class of 09 that graduated from a top college and still can't find jobs. They're in non-technical fields though; maybe tech is doing better, but non-tech is still in the dumps.
I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.
Talk to the people who need your services, talk to people because they might know someone who needs your services. Work out a way you can bring your talents to help others for money. I've never been without work and it's not because I'm particularly bright. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do (most of the time), and I talk about my work because of that.
I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier. Most of it is routine work, but for the hard sells it comes down to a simple fact. My clients hire me so I can save them money long term. So I stay busy.
I don't see how that can translate over to retail. But I can for many other professions. The writers, the sectaries, the office managers, for big companies for small for, for non profits. Chances are you can do the job for less money and with an added technical twist. They can pay you 3/4th as much, and you can make some pretty excel reports that will blow them away.
It's never that simple, but that's the jist I've seen working. But what do I know? I'm a whiney 25 year old.
Not to trivialize the value of, well, adding value, but there's a lot of luck involved too. It was an awakening recently when I tried to refer a bunch of HN people into Google - folks whose resumes and comments looked pretty good to me - and none of them even got past the prescreen. My own hiring process went remarkably smoothly, and my recruiter hustled me between the different phases with little delay. It was a surprise to me that so many people who I thought were otherwise good candidates didn't even make it to the initial phone screen.
I've never had trouble finding a job either, but maybe I'm just lucky. It's sorta hard to reconcile the ease of getting hired/doing the job vs. the difficulty of doing something like starting my own company (which I've also tried, and failed miserably at). Maybe for some people, those talents are just reversed...or worse, they're bad at both of them.
Oh man, being bad at both is my worst nightmare!
Fortunately, there are such variances in types of work, that surely you can find SOMETHING you can excell at.
In almost any imaginable scenario, you have it worse today than some 50 year old had it in the seventies.
Taking it one step further, the ruthless and ambitious (becoming a norm just to survive) will aim to take as much as possible and give back little or nothing at all, maybe a bit of lip service with some condescension.
Then there's bosses making staff feel they owe them something just for providing a work opportunity in a particular field, or even just providing an income. Bosses wanting their pound of flesh and then some: $1 more for you is $1 less for me.
Being paid regularly an honest wage for an honest days' work is a great thing, anything else and someone's being screwed over.
Among other things, the coalition wants: free college tuition for low-income students who are willing to do volunteer work; the right to be covered in their parents' health insurance program until the age of 26; college loan-forgiveness programs for young people who agree to serve distressed communities after graduation; and micro loans for young entrepreneurs to start their own businesses.
... Frankly, those all sound like far smarter, better initiatives than propping up failing car manufacturers (which are, coincidentally, dominated by an older generation) or expanded government health coverage (which also disproportionately benefits older people). If that's what the 20-somethings of today "feel entitled" to, I feel pretty good about being a part of the group.
Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem.
Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age.
I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants.
Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)
No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.
So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'
The sooner people realize that, the sooner they can come to terms with its eventual bankruptcy. That's why I hate it when people repeat the myth that you're supposed to get out what you put in. It'll make for a very rude awakening when you don't.
All this and generations want to call me entitled? Look you spent the money you were supposed to save. I can appreciate the social programs that result (I'm a bleeding heart) but, don't shit every where and then blame my generation for stepping in it.
This is true only to the extent that it reimburses/rewards/repays people who actually work. It isn't really based on how much you pay, but the taxable amount of your income. Also, how long you've been working.
Interesting that this topic should come up; just this morning I received my yearly information statement from the SSI. Have been working since age 15 (according to the statement, this is how long I've been paying taxes, too). Actually am pretty astounded at how little "taxable income" I've made in my lifetime. Has absolutely _nothing_ to do with how hard I've worked.
Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?
A SS advocate would point out that your mother probably got something.
I'll point out that the fact that your dad got more screwed than someone else by SS does not imply that said someone else didn't get screwed as well.
I think that your dad sould have been able to keep the 15% that SS took, or at least give it to your mom and you. SS advocates think otherwise.
Yes, all Social Security advocates work in air-conditioned offices, and all people in air-conditioned offices are Social Security advocates. I love it when the world turns out to be black and white after all, instead of those messy shades of grey...
Please move along, nothing to see here.
Judging by the tone of this article I have to say, yes, his premise is dead on.
Someone fix the headline: College boy finds out that life isn't fair, cries a river.
Just seems odd that the author complains about not being able to find a job, yet takes zero responsibility for his situation.
When I graduated college (into a shitty job market) many job offers were delayed, rescinded, or simply unavailable - I don't remember blaming everyone else.
It is an intensely ugly trait.
"when you don't create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. your tastes only narrow & exclude people. so create."
I actually vaguely remember hearing the same lies, but not from my parents, at least not without the "nobody owes you anything" caveat.
It didn't take me long to realize, intuitively, if not explicitly, that finishing college wouldn't help me get the job I wanted. Today, obviously, it might not even help me get any job.
Even absent an entrepreneurship opportunity, I dropped out, and I don't regret it, despite the stigma it carried in the computer industry, well into the dot-com boom.
I'm definitely embarrassed for my generation that we perpetuated the lies, rather than encouraging choices, including self-employment or learning a trade.
This is mainly the result of over-protective, risk-averse parenting. To them, the best way for their child to achieve success was along this path. If their child tried to deviate from the path, they were grabbed by the scruff and forcefully put back on this path by their parents until it was ingrained in them as the only path.
To such parents, things like entrepreneurship are too risky. Their child might fail, and have nothing to show for it. It's better for their child to just go through college, get a job at a large corporation and possibly spend their life working their way up through middle-management until their seniority gains them a nice juicy salary along the way...
I found this advice to be quite good, although I am sure it doesn't work for everyone. Then again, I never felt I was entitled to a job.
The plural of anecdote is not data. ;-)
However, especially from the standpoint of a graduating high school senior, it is very real.
I think there's an implied "first" (or "next" after secondary school) in all of this.
The younger generation is bitter because they heavily invested according to a specific system of advancement, discovered that the rewards provided by the system have fundamentally changed, and blame the geezers for steering them down the wrong path.
Neither generation wants to accept that the rules have changed and don't pay off the way they used to. That's why they're trying to find someone to blame. (Other than themselves, of course.)
Can we as a society do better, so more people realize that that no one owes them anything, and any promises that were made to them were probably made by the well-meaning, but ultimately un- or misinformed?
But once kids get out of college, no one's putting up hoops anymore. No one's telling you "Do x, then y will happen." And a lot of people have no idea what to do if the hoops aren't being put up by someone else. Making your own hoops — being able to do anything and not necessarily getting clear, immediate positive reinforcement that you've chosen correctly and done well — is simply not something that a lot of people are good at.
Maybe that's related to the upbringing of today's 20-somethings and maybe it's not, but being a member of that group myself, it does seem like a widespread phenomenon.
Science shows pretty clearly that it is related to upbringing. C.f. Punished by Rewards.
The way high-SES parents overstimulate their infants and toddlers also seems to be causing long term damage to executive function. Because of poor parenting and the way our school system is designed, kids are essentially graduating with severe cognitive damage and are unable to invent and manage their own lives.
I was dealt the shitty hand. Single working mom with more kids than resources to handle them. A broke elementary school. I learned early on the social contract between jobs and employees was broken when my mom was laid off and we were constantly fighting the water, electricity, and telephone company to maintain basic services. I signed up for every afterschool program available because I hated having to go to an unairconditioned home in the Florida heat. God must have a wicked sense of humor, my reluctance to stay home meant I did academically well. And eventually getting into a good uni.
When I got to university I was incredibly envious of those around me. Who had the resources to buy a computer when I certainly couldn't. They had everything in life handed to them. I wished I had a tutor but it was expensive. I wished I had a scheduled life because it seemed easier than trying to figure it out. I wished my family wasn't 1000 miles away because for the first time I felt alone. All of these things meant I had to fend for myself and take nothing for granted.
When I see how life is for kids lately I feel sorry for them. Everything is planned out around them with little input from them. You rarely see a kid sign up for basketball or soccer without the parents nearby. I remember signing my moms signature on so many things that when she really did sign something they thought it was a forgery. I remember forging health insurance forms because I couldn't play soccer without it and I knew we didn't have it. God if I would have gotten seriously injured we would have been fucked.
They are told to complete a task and expect a reward. I was told to do something because it had to be done. As my mom would say, "Go to school or I will beat your ass!". Life is actually like that. It can be rewarding, but fundamentally life doesn't reward you for doing a good job. You are trying to avoid getting your ass kicked by life.
My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have. If he does that I can almost guarantee he'll find a good job. I can't say exactly when (I can't predict the economy) but it will be before 99% of his fellow 20 somethings
Does that make him 'entitled' or just naive?
> My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have.
Not always true. I've worked many jobs that suck the life out of you. And I've known people that have languished in such jobs because once you get home you don't feel like doing anything but shutting down. Thankfully I'm in a much better job now.
Welcome to the real world.
Sad Fact #1: Everything people tell you isn't true. Even your parents, religious leaders and teachers will tell you things that aren't entirely true, mostly because they have their own motivations.
Sad Fact #2: You can do everything the right way and still fail. Mostly because there are a lot of people who's parents also told them to study hard and overachieve, and by the nature of the system you can't all win big.
I had to learn these lessons the hard way, too. Everyone does, sooner or later. Some people respond by taking another look around and wondering what else they don't know. Other people start to demand the respect they were promised without having yet accomplished anything impressive. If you're in that second group you have what they call a "sense of entitlement", no matter what the previous generation told you.
I suggest media arts. :)
This guy needs to join that girl in her silly lawsuit she filed against her college. I'd never hire her nor this whiner. Though maybe this is there way of thinking of the box and getting attention. They say any kind of attention is good(publicity), yet for me I still would not hire either!
I, for instance, was born in a smaller generation. The baby boomers will control things for a decade or two more, and after they start dying, those younger than me will become dominant.
I'm not really that concerned about this - I came to terms with it long ago. But it's still there, and I can understand if some people get bitter about things like this.
We tell you these things so you will apply yourself and have what it takes when/if you get the opportunity. There is a diff between flipping burgers because [the market is tight| you're working through college| any other hurdle] and flipping burgers because you aren't qualified to do anything else. We remember questioning "when will I need to know X when I grow up?". Nine times out of ten they are teaching something completely useless, but it is something you have to work your way through.
I tell my kids that the majority of what is taught in school is bullsh|t, but it is something they must/will do because if they do not they will have to answer to me. I tell them that the most important parts of school aren't remembering why some old dead guy crossed the Delaware. The most important things are learning how to solve problems and think for themselves. I tell them the controlling, idiotic teachers they are dealing with now are just like the controlling, idiotic bosses and coworkers they will be dealing with when they enter the job market so they better get used to it.
I teach them to take responsibility for their own screw-ups and short comings and the importance of remaining focused and humble when they are the hero of the moment.
It sounds as though some kids get the sugar and spice version. Now that you know the truth adjust accordingly and get on with it!
All those things are good things to do in themselves--and many will be useful in the future. That said, It's a rough time for a lot of people graduating now--and it's ridiculous to see older people pretend that they're having trouble because they did something wrong.
I was watching footage from the town hall meetings around the country for the health care reform and noticed only one person without gray hair there and she was still old.
Only adults can raise themselves.
Do the drugs. Have underage sex. Steal a car. Get into a fistfight.
After this, you will realize that life is not prescriptive/deterministic.
All I can say is, and I've been working over 8 years, if I was graduating college in this economy with 50+k in loans, no job, the worst UE rate in 20+ years, I'd be pissed as well. Not saying its right, not saying its wrong, just saying...Well, if you enter into a verbal agreement with someone, you're not necessarily entitled to anything. When your parents told you to work hard at school and college with the promise that the world will take care of you, you didn't enter into a legitimate contract. So despite your whining, the world doesn't owe you shit.
Anyway, health care. I think old people understand that the system is kind-of, sort-of insolvent already, and that expanding it will probably push it over the cliff at a bad time for them. Being shrill and ranty is all well and good, but other people have their worries, too.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com
...the deductibles tend to be 2000-3000 dollars, but that's not unreasonable. If you have any data to provide, please do so, because chirpy little responses are just so much pollution.
If you are a male in your 20s and you are relatively healthy, you should be able to get good health coverage for ~125 a month if you are willing to do a really high deductible, say 10k. What this means is that you essentially only have health care if you get into a car accident or something, and for everything else you need to go into a walk-in clinic and pay yourself.
If you want routine healthcare it should be closer to 200 month. It's more expensive for women, closer to 300 a month or more.
If you are in less than perfect health then the rates go up, that is if you can get coverage at all. There are also certain programs that offer cheaper than normal health care because they use they are run by religious organizations who use the first amendment to get around certain regulations and fees.
If it's a choice between eating and health insurance, which it was for me at times, people will choose eating. And having a roof over their heads.
For some reason the Blue Shield website isn't responding for me right now, but I just checked out Anthem CA's website (the other Blue Cross/Blue Shield company in CA) and they have a bunch of plans listed right off the bat that start at $80: https://express.rwsol.com/roi/getCCRecommendations.do?produc...
Now, is $80 really that expensive for health insurance?
Now, we're both healthy, which is a huge blessing. The issue of not being able to get coverage if you have health problems is one of the main problems I have with the healthcare system. That said, $150 / month for two people is hardly insurmountable.
It's his problem for believing the bullshit "adults" told him all his life. I knew from day one it was complete and utter nonsense. I bet he learned to blame others from them too. He should only blame himself for his lack of foresight.
I also have a degree from a good university but the difference is I used that time as an opportunity to extend my social and professional network instead of counting on a fucking piece of paper to grant me magical opportunities. College is what it's always been: a club for the children of privilege to come together and make relationships. If you treat it as such, the value of an "education" is apparent the minute you step foot on campus. Don't waste your time going to a bullshit school without any smart or wealthy people. Just skip it unless you can go to a good school.
See, the way it is where I work is that you better fucking have your laptop with you 24/7 because if one of the duct-tape and chicken-wire projects that you're required to support goes down...well then hollly shit it better be fixed like RIGHT. FREAKING. NOW. (never mind that these outages and crashes happen at companies that we are customers of...as in: they won't let me into their FTP server to fix it when it is just fucking dropping connections for no reason).
But by golly, we better be glad to even HAVE a job! See, if we whine, or don't perform 100% all the time every day (even during our "vacation") there are a few hundred qualified applicants ready to take our job for the same pay and the same requirements (these people will burn out in a couple of months...again...and the cycle will continue).
How did this start? Too many people were told that they were special. Too many degrees were given out, and now the job market is flooded with people. We have a surplus of "skills".
How is it that people can't wrap their head around man-hours as a commodity? De beers knows this, they keep vaults full of diamonds locked away in a basement in NYC because they know that if they dump all those diamonds on the market, the price will get driven down.
We've been screwed. I'm sorry, this isn't entitlement. This is facts.
We've been screwed.
The problem isn't that there are a few hundred-qualified applicants. The problem is that an employer has no tool to filter those applicants, so the applicants can't do anything to be more qualified than the others and the process becomes quite random. My thesis is that given a good graduation result the next best thing is to learn socials skills and tricks in the interview process. In the end HR makes a gut decision.
I'm lucky enough to get to work on what I love, but I still think that we should endeavour to restrict the 'normal' working week to a lower number of hours. In Praise of Idleness is an interesting essay on the point: http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html .
I'm trying to get rich so I don't have to answer to some clown barely half my age when I'm 40.
It's pragmatic of someone but not necessarily pleasant of them to seek another out just because they're smart or rich. Also, learning how to learn and learning how to relate can be undertaken at any college. But, I do agree with you on one level.
Furthermore, unrealized knowledge entitlement annoyed me far more than unrealized career entitlement (if any). I was ready to run or inherit a business empire knowledge-wise upon graduating. Alas, that did not occur!
Most grads (of Information Systems) said they used none of their knowledge after graduating: best study something one enjoys or something that will definitely be used.
This what he's warning everyone else against? Don't trust the lying fuckers. He did and he's now screwed. It may be his fault for having believed them, but it's a great thing for him to warn other potential suckers.
Of course if you've got a liberal arts degree from a diploma mill, that won't be you.