Comment by SoftwareMaven | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SoftwareMaven | Hacker News Reader

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I agree, but I don't think it is ever that easy. The problem is bullies target people who they know won't fight back, whose personality makes that particularly difficult. There is usually more than one bully involved, too, which makes one feel like s/he has to try to fight back against all of them, an overwhelming proposition.

Benjamin Franklin's solution to getting a person who hated him to like him was to get the other person to do things for him[1]. Doing something for somebody you hate causes cognitive dissonance, as you do positive things for a "negative" person, and the way this often resolves is through a reduction of those negative feelings (empathy may also play a role). Suspension and other punishments don't solve the underlying problem, which is a lack of empathy. A punishment of service to the abused seems like it would be more useful.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect

Yes, but that's the point. I never picked on someone who I felt would fight back. I don't know how I developed this intuition as a kid but it was fairly accurate. The thing is if the kid fought back then I would probably have picked someone else. It must be hard for the bullying victim but it's something that has to be done.

This link you gave is interesting. My corollary to this is as a victim, never do favors for your bullier. It only makes you look weaker in their eyes and it will only spur them on. For me, the only solution is to fight back and make yourself not look an easy target.

> It must be hard for the bullying victim but it's something that has to be done.

That's another thing. I sometimes wonder if, with all these rules and regulations and protections in place, we're not taking away some of the development that kids have to do for themselves. Standing up to a bully is extremely hard, but it's something a lot of kids eventually just have to do. I honestly think it builds character to do so.

I think the Ben Franklin effect depends on the person willingly performing the favor. The cognitive dissonance arises from the conflict of their own willing action. Subconsciously the thought looks something like, "I don't like this person, but I did choose to help them, so I must not really dislike them all that much."

A punishment of service to the abused is likely forcing the attacker to do it against his will. If anything I think that would make the attacker feel even more hateful towards the abused. The subconscious thought is something like: "That little dweeb got me in trouble. Then they made me kiss up to him. I can't stand it."

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