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Comment by cubancigar11 | Hacker News Reader

This is not specific to Belgium. Most countries beside USA have a notice period of 2 to 3 months.

In fact, it is actually much worse for an employee to have such long notice periods. The most obvious one is already mentioned - boredom and low morale. But it has an interesting side-effect: Most companies have immediate requirements and cannot wait for months before it is filled. So they hire from a pool that is limited to people who have already been laid off. And obviously the employees are in poor position to negotiate any salary increase.

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"Most countries beside USA have a notice period of 2 to 3 months."

Really? In most countries? I'm not so sure, even if we exclude "most countries" to mean "most First World Countries".

Do you have a source?

Change "most First World countries" to "most Western countries"; Japan, Korea, Singapore and Taiwan are first world countries (at least in the sense 'first world' means economically developed).

And what happens in those countries in terms of notice period? I'm actually wondering specifically about those countries too. Otherwise, all we have left is the US + Europe, more or less, I believe.

In Singapore it's 1 day to 4 weeks, depending on how long they were employed[1]. Taiwan is 10 to 30 days, depending on length of employment[2]. Korea is 30 days[3]. Japan is also 30 days[4].

I'm Australian, and it's also one to four weeks notice here, depending on how long the employee's been employed at the company[5].

1. http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/employment-rights...

2. http://www.chinalawandpractice.com/Article/3142351/Issue/850...

3. http://us.practicallaw.com/6-508-2342?q=&qp=&qo=&qe=#a612243

4. http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/setting_up/laws/section4/pa...

5. http://www.mondaq.com/australia/x/183150/Contract+of+Employm...

I have worked in several countries. It was based on my experience. Also, I have seen that notice period has gradually gone up in service based companies.

I know that HN core audience hasn't really seen that side of outsourcing, so the experiences might be different.

> In fact, it is actually much worse for an employee to have such long notice periods. The most obvious one is already mentioned - boredom and low morale.

Unless the law prohibits terminal paid leave, this is easily avoided.

> Most companies have immediate requirements and cannot wait for months before it is filled.

So? Hire someone immediately. Having notice requirements for termination doesn't prohibit you from doing that. Internal policies regarding positions might, but that's a problem of internal policies, not externally-imposed terminal notice requirements.

That is what I am saying. If you want someone to work from tomorrow, then you look for people whose notice period is ending tomorrow or has already ended. You can no longer poach employees.

Did you want to say something else? Could you please explain further?

> In fact, it is actually much worse for an employee to have such long notice periods.

You'd really prefer "Clean out your things and exit the premises by 11AM" over 2 to 3 months notice?

2-3 months of the employee having been completely demotivated, festering resentment, and likely not doing anywhere close to expected productivity (much less overtime as the author was surprised about not getting).

"Out by 11AM" sucks, but it's _done_, minimizes suffering, and you can move on with life. Trust me.

The social (not legal) convention in the USA is 2 weeks (with 2 weeks pay in lieu of work if the "out by 11AM" happens). That's about enough to, if on good terms, wrap things up for all parties involved and transition accordingly.

Giving someone 2-3 months notice, and expecting performance as though it's going to proceed and end as if it were "out by 11AM" (to wit: work full enthusiastic hours for weeks on end with no distractions, then pack up and leave one morning) is absurdly unrealistic.

What about the suffering of the employee? They have bills to pay, rent or mortgage to pay, and food to buy. 2 weeks paid notice when you're fired means you have to scramble to get a job. The company have months of time to play for when to fire you, but you only get 2 weeks before you stop getting money? No way.

Of course not. I would prefer it to be around 2 weeks to 1 month.

But really, it depends on the job market. As an employee, let us say, a specialized laborer, I would prefer the notice period to be as long as possible because there aren't going to be any other jobs for me out there.

Yes. Pulling off a Band-Aid is never fun, but if it has to be done, the total unpleasantness is minimized by getting it over with quickly.

> Most countries beside USA have a notice period of 2 to 3 months.

That much? In Netherland it's just one month.

Those three months are an upper bound, not a requirement. If you are fired, then it can usually be assumed the employer would rather see you go sooner than later. You can usually negotiate a shorter term.

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