They obviously can, the same way that they can offset the dollars by paying for their childrens' living expenses. But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors.
This idea (first quoted sentence) needs to die. It is toxic to the early-stage ecosystem. Any amount of money is a ton of money. Period. You can ignore the hustling that Jobs or Zuckerberg did for literally a couple of thousand dollars - read Zuckerberg's contracts at the time he was at Harvard making facebook. Look at the timing jobs "Stole" $5000 from Woz and founded Apple with it (making his friend a multimillionaire in the process). The reality is that no windfall bonus from Atari of less than $4300 - which is money that Jobs had 0, absolutely 0, access to, from any other source - equals no Apple. Look at the dates.
You can also ignore what companies actually spend the YCombinator seed money on when it was $14K-$20K, at a time that the YC badge easily added $200K+ to a YC company's average valuation - a badge that doesn't bring instant liquidity. How many YC companies would not exist if YC only added its badge to the valuation, and not actually given any money.[1]
What you can't ignore is that there are people who are working a day job while owning and building a company - working that day job because any amount of money, even part of a single full time earner's after-tax salary, is a ton of money.
Just try raising it.
[1] Imagine if the YC admission read: "Congratulations! This admission is easily worth $200K in extra valuation. With the YC badge, you should have no trouble raising money. We are therefore not making any cash investment, not even $12K, but rendering only services. We welcome you to the bay area on (date)."
You don't have to give away anything. be an entrepreneur.
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37signals started that way, for what it's worth. Not by living with their parents, of course; by bootstrapping a consultancy.
PlentyOfFish started that way.
Braintree started that way.
Come to think of it, so did Github.
And didn't Mailchimp bootstrap, too?
I think maybe the impedance mismatch here is that you assume I'm saying companies need to raise more than 120k to start. They don't, if they start out profitable. But that's not the normal YC startup strategy: those companies depend on the ability to run for a year, maybe many years, before generating profits. Against that strategy, 120k is not very meaningful. Which is why 'pg and now 'sama are always at pains to point out that people shouldn't apply "for the money".
I have a roommate in SF. He's freelancing, I'm working at a company. He's making more cash than I am, but I'm working on building a company (as an employee) that's shipped multiple iterations of a category-leading product, raised $XX million in VC, and hired almost 100 people.
I'm not disputing that a good freelancer can clear $120k net of taxes and living expenses, just that that's the best path to take, if the end goal is to be an entrepreneur.
Practically every established consultancy in the US throws off numbers like that year in year out, as a routine. Which is one reason a lot of consultancies end up spinning up product teams.
But that $100K? That was a ton of money.
Basically, you are wrong that it was not a ton of money, your anchors and comparisons are toxic and misleading, and if he had not cut that check then Larry and Sergey would not have created Google. That is what actual reality shows us.
You simply do an incredible disservice to all early-stage startups by talking in these terms.
I gave you several actual examples of far less than $120K being a ton of money in an early-stage context. As little as $5000 being a ton of money. I also specifically stated that if, say, $20K, weren't a lot of money, then it would make no difference empirically if YCombinator did not actually pay that cash. And YC companies wouldn't have either relied on or even actually spent that cash. But it does make a difference, and they did.
As I specifically point out: your FTE expenses are completely irrelevant, and even part (less than 100%) of the after-tax portion of a single FTE salary is a ton of money. (In an early-stage context.)
To imply otherwise does a huge disservice to all first-time, early-stage founders everywhere. The very idea is toxic and needs to die.
[1] The meaning of anchor I use is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
[2] Your figures both about (1) the cost to the company of a fully loaded FTE senior engineer and (2) the amount that a good freelancer can generate above living expenses in a year, are irrelevant and do not need to be argued. I will grant both as irrelevant to the discussion.
* 120k will barely pay the fully loaded cost of a single engineer
* A good freelancer can generate 120k above living expenses in a year
Your response was "the fully loaded cost of an engineer is irrelevant". That's a weird argument, given that the cost of engineers dominates the expenses of early-stage startups.
You know this, so I'm not sure why you're off on a tangent about things that don't normally apply in these situations.
If I gave you $120k to start a company with 1-2 other people, and you had no other funding commitments, I don't think I'd be changing your odds all that much.
But I have no trouble believing that when YC gives founders $120k, they are changing the odds significantly.
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It would help if you read my comments more carefully. The one you just replied to was particularly simple. Almost the only thing it says is that being a part of YC improves the odds. But the 120k isn't what's doing that.
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The skills to get that big company job or land those consulting clients are pretty much the same skills you need to make your product company successful. An understanding of what people will pay you money for. Ability to execute on a project. Collaboration and communication. And of course, solid coding skills. The difference is that a product company also requires a fair degree of business strategy, determination, and sheer resourcefulness that you don't need to get a job.
So if you want to found a successful company, you're much better off developing those skills, testing them by getting a job or someone else to pay you money, and then striking off on your own. If you just get the money, chances are you will lose the money pretty soon too.
We are in a crazy scenario where we are seeking a Series A with a good product in a validated market fit.
The investors have essentially said unless you are eating ramen noodles and scraping by we are not interested.
^^ That attitude essentially rules out anyone with a family, prior commitments or debts from college/life.
Why would a funding round not earmark a portion for a fair (albeit lower than market) salary?
I have to agree with you that what is "a lot of money" is entirely relative; I don't think that $5k in today's terms is a lot of money by any startup's standards but any amount upwards of $15k or so is definitely "a lot of money" to a larval startup.
And, let's be honest, $120k really isn't a lot of money. Sure, it might be more than my net worth right now—but as an engineer I could easily save up that amount in less than 2 years.
However, engineers and recruiters at the top tech companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft have definitely heard of YC.