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How much time do you save by speeding? To me, speeding significantly, especially for short trips, is futile.

Say in a 20 mile commute, 14 miles is on the highway with a speed limit of 65mph, 3 miles is on a road with a speed limit of 45mph, and 3 miles is on a residential road with a speed limit of 35mph. Furthermore, to simplify this, let's say you only speed on the highway. Going 65mph will result in 12.9 minutes on the highway, going 80mph will result in 10.5 minutes on the highway. By speeding, you exposed yourself to financial risk, and yourself and others to physical risk in order to save 2.4 minutes.

Now, let's say you encounter 6 stop lights on your commute, each with an average red light time of 1 minute. Let's say on average, you get caught in half of them each time you make the trip and that there are no backups requiring you to stay at any given light for more than 1 cycle. So your average red light time per commute is 3 minutes.

You've now spent more time waiting at red lights than you have saved by speeding on your commute.

On long trips, speeding can save you hours instead of minutes, so it seems more justified. But for a savings of 2.5 minutes that can easily be negated by red lights or other drivers? Why put yourself and others at risk for such a small reward?

I imagine it's less about time saved, and more about fun. Most people don't go downhill skiing to get somewhere.

Which leads me to an important thought: it needs to be easier to find a place to play in your car. There need to be more raceways and race training.

The United States needs a few https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring 's

Then why not speed on a track, or some other closed environment?

I imagine that shooting guns at targets is fun too - but most people wouldn't find that to be an acceptable excuse for shooting guns at targets in a public park.

It's not a part of the American culture so much. I think it should be.

I also think speed limits (on highways) should be higher, or be condition-specific. ... and I think we should have better driver's ed in the States, and harsher penalties for drunk driving.

But that's just me.

> Then why not speed on a track, or some other closed environment?

Because freedom.

> I imagine that shooting guns at targets is fun too - but most people wouldn't find that to be an acceptable excuse for shooting guns at targets in a public park.

What do you think the "we use them to hunt" justification is for the American love of owning guns? The overwhelming majority of people who trot out this justification aren't depending on a good hunt for any real productive purpose; they go hunting because it's fun.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with driving fast or hunting/shooting guns - I'm just saying there is a context in which those activities are not acceptable, and that context is when you are acting unsafely and subjecting other people to unnecessary risk.

Note when I say park, I mean a city park, not a state park or wildlife park or wherever hunting is actually permitted.

because track days are expensive. considerably more so than an afternoon at the gun range.

You do save time on daily commutes because you're not including the cost of getting stuck behind lines of dumb drivers. You don't always get to go a smooth 70mph. Going faster (even if just by 5pmh) can get you ahead of a car. That one car can make or break you, because they may be the one that forms a blockade across all lanes that inconveniences everyone behind them. If you're smooth about speeding you can use it until you're ahead of the pack, then you hit cruise control.

On long trips, I optimize speed to road and traffic conditions, as everyone does, but also to engine RPMs. If speeding is making you run 4000 RPM in your highest gear, you might want to slow down a bit (use your onboard MPG display to see the difference). Someone can check whether the time savings of having to make fewer stops for gas is worth it. The fuel consumption and engine wear savings certainly seems good to me.

Update: There is also aerodynamics to think about. Aerodynamic drag is almost twice as great at 70mph as it is at 50mph.[1]

[1]http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/drag

There is a valid safety concern. On certain roads, people regularly speed 70 to 80 mph in a 55mph zone. It is honestly safer to be ~70mph than it is to be going the proper speed limit in these circumstances.

It's really not always about saving time as another has noted. Speeding is not a significant time saver on short drivers, and I don't think there's anyone who can dispute that.

As you noted on long trips it can make a large difference. That's the only place I tend to bother these days - when I'm doing it to save time.

People speeding in the far left lane don't bother me. Your advice to "stay out of the left hand lane" and have a "car... on the left side shield you" are bad, dangerous advice.

Pass on the left. If you're passing people on the right then you're driving dangerously. (With an obvious exception for the occasional person going 60 in the left lane that you're forced to go around)

I do a quite a bit of night driving. I'm always in the right hand lane on three lane roads. Night traffic is very light, so I won't change two lanes just to go around people that insist on driving in the middle lane when the right lane is empty.

I think that's what he meant.

The middle lane makes more sense as the cruising lane on an empty 3-lane highway because:

1) You do not need to change lanes to avoid cars at on-ramps or cars on the shoulder

2) You do not need to switch lanes to pass slow traffic (semi trucks, etc.)

3) There is more room to maneuver in case of emergency

I don't get this.

1 and 2) So everyone should have to change lanes to get around you, but you shouldn't have to change lanes for anything?

3) Typical 3 lane highways have 4 actual lanes, the right most one being the breakdown lanes and can be used in an emergency. That means being in the middle lane gives you one lane to your left and two to your right, vs. one to your right and two to your left. Same difference, no added benefit.

Fair point. edited to reflect this, I didn't want to give the impression that you should ordinarily be zipping by folks on the right. On the other hand if you're two lanes removed and the middle lane is empty, it's reasonably safe.

It's trading speed for risk of a ticket.

If tickets for dangerous driving were given instead of for speeding, then people might optimize for what is safer, not just what would not give them a ticket.

I do all these and they seem to work. I have gotten pulled over in the last 10 years but only gotten warnings.

As an addendum, if you do get pulled over:

1) Remove your hat if you're wearing one.

2) Get your wallet out and put it on the dash as soon as you come to a stop.

3) Roll all windows down, turn on your interior lights, and shut your engine off.

4) Put your hands on the steering wheel until you need to reach for your registration.

5) Admit and deny nothing, which seems tough, but is actually easy, a grimace or a shrug is all the response you need to give to "I had you going 85hph".

This has worked for me in the past (gotten off with only a warning). Along with the hands on the steering wheel, engine off, interior light on, window down I might also add, ask the officer if you can reach for something before doing so.

Cop: "Can I see your license and registration?" You: "It's in the glove box." Cop: "Go ahead and grab it."

It's not about submitting to their authority, it's about doing things that benefit you in the end. You don't have to do any of this stuff, but don't complain when things don't go your way.

Wait on step 2. Hard to tell if somebody is pulling out their wallet or a weapon from outside the car.

The whole glove box routine should be avoided. Fumbling for docs under stress is not where you want to be. Better to keep your insurance/registration in an envelope in the visor.

That's why you put your hands on the steering wheel. The officer walks up to the car, sees your hands, sees your wallet on the dash and puts 2+2 together.

Otherwise, when you reach behind your back for your wallet, the officer has no idea what's going to be in your hand when it reappears.

Yep, all excellent to do when actually pulled. Well almost - I disagree about number 2.

Instead I suggest: wait until they arrive then explain what you're going to do, and do it slowly. You can also - if you're charismatic - use that time to talk a bit. Not to make excuses, but just to talk.

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You don't have to stay frozen. But if you want to have an easy time of things, it's not a bad idea to avoid doing things that might look a lot like reaching for your gun. A relaxed cop is usually a much friendlier cop.

Yup.

A guy I know, his dad was paralyzed from the waist down, lives in a care facility and shits in a bag for the rest of his life because someone joker high on whatever didn't want to be arrested.

So folks might appreciate that a cop might be tense during a traffic stop.

Remember that this is a conversation about how to avoid a ticket not about maintaining your rights/ego.

This is OK advice except for the bit about don't use detectors. Quality detectors like the Valentine 1 will save you from tickets.

Yes, burst radars are very common these days and won't show up unless someone ahead of you gets lit up, but guess what? Unless you're alone on the freeway, there's a pretty solid chance someone ahead of you is gonna get lit up before you do and it will give you a warning to slow down.

I drove with a V1 for years and it saved me from many, many tickets. (I didn't get a single one the entire time I owned one.)

My point being; radar detectors are useful tools. It can be a worthwhile investment if you buy a good one and know how to make use of it.

(For anyone wondering, I sold my V1 to a friend when I decided the german sports car phase of my life was over.)

Remote detectors have the double advantages of stealth and better positioning of components.

Bel Pro RX75 Plus off the internet for a few hundred bucks and installing it was as easy as running a few wires.

Radar under the fiberglass hood at the very front of the vehicle, it's away from everything ferrous, LIDAR receivers|emitters in both front fascia vents and on the rear license plate frame further concealed by a generic-looking custom frame.

The display cannot be seen from any angle unless you slouch like a gangster in the driver seat. There's absolutely no trace, no cheezy over-stretched coil from the visor down that can be seen from Nevada.

Might upgrade to BEL STi-R Plus.

I agree with you in the radar detector front, definitely beneficial. Where I live, with my detector, cops seem to just leave their radar on at all times, rather than targeting single drivers. My detector lights up 1/4 before I can even see the cop. Has saved me multiple times.

They're illegal in a nearby state however, and a cop can pull you over if they see a detector on your dashboard.

Keep an eye out on state or local laws of course, with any bit of advice.

Legality: http://www.radarbusters.com/radar-detectors/stateradardetect...

More importantly, a cop seeing a detector will often pull you over for the fun of "gotcha." Being HN, here's proof. My ex uni roommate is on CHP in Martinez. Copy & paste from iMessage: "LOL, definitely" Mostly, it's cop psychology is really all that makes the difference between getting hassled and not.

I guess I'd argue that if you can avoid the tickets without the detector through sufficient awareness and caution, why not save the money?

It's like, if you can avoid crashing through sufficient awareness and caution, why not save the money and avoid insurance? There's a risk <-> cost trade-off here, and on one side is higher risk lower cost and on the other side is lower risk higher cost.

> It's perfectly possible to drive very fast without driving badly

I do get what you're saying, and it's clearly true on some level, but your statement rings all kinds of alarm bells for me, most notably that almost everyone considers themselves a good driver, and many feel that their skill justifies that they be exempt from the rules. But people are terrible judges of their own skill, and I would urge anyone who feels justified in driving outside the normal speed range to seek independent verification that their driving skill is outside the normal range.

That an excellent point. I wish such a system existed under which that was possible to do :(

If I had unlimited funds, I would go to Finland and take their top of the line driver education course for a summer's vacation.

> 2) Go as fast as you want - but don't be the fastest car on the road. Always let a cop-catcher run about a 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile ahead

I have a name for them. I call them "forward probes".

If you know what you are doing you can actually "launch" forward probes. All you need is to identify a young driver in a hot or pretend-hot car and match their speed while driving next to them. I'm not talking about racing or speeding. Almost without fail some of these guys will punch it and take off like they have to prove something.

Having launched a "forward probe" you just keep it at a comfortable distance in front of you and enjoy the ride.

Yep, discovered this trick myself. It helps to have a muscle car, because then you're practically 'challenging' them by being next to them.

Edit: to be fair: when someone pulls next to me and sits there matching speed for a prolonged period I'll often pull ahead as well. That's not because I have something to prove, but just because I'm not comfortable being boxed in by someone apparently oblivious to the idea of 'escape routes'.

'course I also don't take off at max speed, usually just enough ahead to have a sizeable gap between us. And because people are people, that's typically enough that they'll drop back and cease matching speeds anyway .

Prima facie rule is really "don't be a moron."

I would throttle up in the right lane and not have a speed differential not too great compared to traffic, because someone that cuts you off to make an exit could be fatal.

Also, there are some areas, like near UC Davis, where a cop on 80 will stand behind the rise of an overpass berm to hide his vehicle around a bend and nab people using laser. Thankfully the twice this happened, laser jamming may have been allegedly deployed and he checked his gun for errors while I might have turned the alleged system off and coasted.

If someone were unlucky enough to have been pulled over:

If the cop is male, you can try a sob story ("I'll lose my job because I need to make FAA status") or actual sobbing. If the cop is female, emotional persuasion is less effective.

Also if someone happens to get a ticket, best move would be to be unmemorable as possible and fight it. There's a zillion technicalities because there are so many ways to screw up (not) measuring and writing the ticket.

Heck, a friend of mine even legally has no front license plate and gets out of every fix-it because a previous ruling allowed it. Mine has a front-center threaded tow-receiver hook frame, so you can guess where it's at most of the time. :)

You should also know what you can get away with in the area you are driving, and what they use for the traps. In upstate NY I could go 14 over an no one batted an eye, but cars going just a hair faster would get pulled over every time. In PA the limit is closer to 8 or 9, and they pulled me over as part of a big trap with a cop hiding in the woods with a stop watch to measure the speed. The car that pulled me over had the lights on and was picking up speed before he ever saw me himself. That ticket had my speed at 83.426mph.

True and good advice. The more familiar you are with tolerences of the area, the more you can comfortably do.

But except in the case of specific speed traps where they're pulling over multiple people, "don't be the fastest car on the road" typically protects you from this. If there are no other cars on the road or if you are the fastest, then proceed with caution.

Addendum: tolerances tend to be lower if you're from out of state, so that's something else to be aware of.

Addendum 2: Some states really don't mess around so always know the rules. In Virginia for example, going over 80 , or 20+ over the limit (whichever is lesser) can actually land you in jail and at minimum mandates a court appearance.

When I got my ticket in PA they had 4 marked cars on rotation pulling people over. Having one guy who is faster in front of you wouldn't help much. I don't think that situation is typical though.

Yeah, they were going out of their way there.

I recall one time on 95-S in MD there were four or five cars. One guy at the front with radar radioing back.

The others were literally just waving everyone the first officer tagged to the side of the road.

I just kept on driving. They weren't interested in chasing... with so many people volunteering for tickets, there was no need.

Strangest setup I've ever seen for ticketing.

>>If you think you've been tagged, don't slam your brakes.<<

Even better.. if you do see someone ahead of you randomly slam/tap their breaks.. slow down. This has saved me a number of times.

Ah yeah! very good one - particularly if you'r elooking as far ahead as you should be (particularly when driving fast, but all the time really) supposed to, this will often give you visible sign of an officer before you see them.

I'm curious now I've seen the word 'breaks' used quite often in car related topics (instead of brakes), is that a type-o/error or is it a local thing? It was also used in a (non quoting) reply...

"Hey I wonder why all those cars ahead are slamming on their breaks and suddenly slowing down?"

I would disagree about the detector. Maybe in Cali or heavily populated areas, but in smaller-medium sized cities and most definitely rural areas they are nice and do work well if you will spend the money to get a nice one ($400-500.) It's not a for sure thing but they do a decent job at detecting a good ways out.

> 2) Go as fast as you want - but don't be the fastest car on the road. Always let a cop-catcher run about a 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile ahead ...

There's an old, fun phrase my dad used for this years ago: "let him beat the bushes, let somebody else rake the leaves, and you sit in the rocking chair."

i.e., don't be the fastest car in sight, and also don't the last in a line of fast cars. Just sit in the middle and take it easy.

I'm pretty disgusted that this comment has become the top post over the comment from pxtl about cars being the leading cause of death for people under the age of 35. Driving is a privilege and many hear are actively trading tips on how to abuse that privilege and get away with it.

I would hope that one day we have RFID chips in speed limit signs that cars can are obligated to read and electronically limit the speed of the vehicle.

I would argue that following the advice I give would tend to make you a safer driver whether you're speeding or not.

For example, this a much shortened version without reference to speed:

- don't tailgate - don't weave - don't race - use your brain and pay attention. All the time. As far up the road as you possibly can.

Whether you're driving fast or slow, following those rules - ingraining those rules into your driving habits - will make you a safer driver.

I speed for my own safety. 90% of the people I see driving just live in their little box, tunnel visioned directly ahead, with no situational awareness of the cars around them. I feel safer speeding ahead and creating as much space as possible than sitting inside of a block of lemmings.

Most police leave their radar on all day long. You can spot them with a good detector up to 5 miles away with good sight lines on a clear day.

This is about entitlement, not economics.

If you don't drive like an asshole, speeding tickets are just an inconvenient, Poisson-frequency toll. Yes, you can safely drive 80 mph in light or no traffic... and if you do so, you might get one ticket every ~3-5 years. You're not likely to accumulate points. Good-driver-got-unlucky tickets are rare and usually minor enough that it doesn't cost-justify the plate. Even if your insurance company is a dickhead, you can usually go to court and get the charge reduced to something without points... unless you habitually drive like an asshole (or speed in the wrong state; be cautious in Virginia.)

It's not surprising that this article would focus on Sand Hill Road, where the running ideology is that one should be able to buy one's way out of anything.

> be cautious in Virginia

I drive like an old lady because I'm in Northern VA, and I've still gotten tickets here.

Go as fast as you want - but don't be the fastest car on the road.

That sounds like a pretty considerable constraint on going as fast as you want...IME there isn't always a person who wants to go a hair faster than you readily available (especially if you're at the top end of the spectrum in your muscle car - do you drive strictly in areas with lots of fast drivers?). I mean, I'm fully in support of the rule, I call that car the "rabbit," but if you're intentionally following someone you're not going as fast as you want, right?