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Comment by stickperson | Hacker News Reader

I started to learn how to code back in August and got my first job as a developer at the end of February. I went through a bootcamp and didn't see anyone besides my girlfriend for 10 weeks.

It's definitely tough not having a mentor, and I struggled a bit for a couple months after classes trying to figure out what I should spend my time learning. I still struggle with it when working on personal projects and often worry I'm not doing things the "best" way.

I sometimes get overwhelmed because there's so much I don't know, and deep down I know I'll never be as good/desirable as someone with a CS degree. That being said, I'm very happy where I am and wouldn't change anything.

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> deep down I know I'll never be as good/desirable as someone with a CS degree.

I stopped working to write this comment--that's how important it is to me that you know this is a belief that will only hold you back.

I could cite any one of thousands of articles that talk about dropouts who made it, but I suspect you know about those articles and it hasn't affected your belief.

So I'll just say this: If I had graduated with a degree, I would have never been able to bootstrap a tech company when I was 20 and sell it for over a million dollars when I was 26.

Don't look at yourself through the eyes of others, because you'll always find yourself wanting. I'm sitting here about to launch my new company (we're doing final testing of our new website right now.) I have no idea whether our site (which is kind of wacky) will convert. I don't know if we'll get any sales. And I've got everything riding on this company--I've put all my chips in.

There's enough in this world that will kick your ass. People haven't believed in my companies for the past 13 years I've been running them. People have laughed in my face, investors have turned me down over and over again, customers have quit, money has been lost (and, on a brighter note, much money has been made!)

Sometimes the only thing you can count on is your internal belief that you WILL make it, no matter what. That's what got me through my last company during its darkest hours. That's what's getting me through now. Enough people will throw shit in your face. Don't be one of them. You are better than that.

The world is full of possibilities. Don't count yourself out. Jennifer sure didn't. ;)

This is so true. Coding is about more than typing some things into a text editor. Even if you don't have a CS degree or a ton of experience you can bring a lot to the table from good UX decisions to fresh perspectives to contagious hustle and drive.

Now if this is true, that takes lots of balls...

I mean the whole "-I've put all my chips in." burn the boats outlook.

I quit my job to work on my startup ideas but have difficulty throwing all my savings in. Wife & kids is my excuse.

> Now if this is true, that takes lots of balls...

Yep, it really is. Not only have I turned down several huge income opportunities to work on MarketVibe, but I'd also sell just about everything I have to see this product come to market. We have a true game-changer of a product, and it's something I really believe in. We also have the right team to build it--I'm a target customer for this product, which is one reason I know the market needs it so badly. And it's a nice money-maker (SaaS).

But yeah. If I had to sell my car tomorrow to finance the startup, I'd do it with zero second thoughts. I'm in this 100%. Otherwise, why run a startup at all?

I heard of someone in australia doing something similar its called Newsmaven

but you seem to adding a dynamic conversion form too.

and props for having the balls to go all in. My argument is that all my savings and assets is not mine. I share it with my family. I can/should only risk my part of the savings/assets even though I have the right to act unilaterally.

Some of my problem is having a savings habit and not being a spendy type of guy. Its an asset as well as I need to learn to loosen up and spend on lot more needed stuff to make our carrotleads product a success.

Just wanted to say that I found this comment to be crazy motivating for me this morning.

Please hit us up when you launch (or contact me personally if you don't want to post it yourself).

Thanks!

Edit: Cool, didn't realize you're in Austin! Gonna ping you

Thanks for the motivation. Like others have said, it takes a lot of guts to do what you're doing.

Bill Gates doesn't have a CS degree. John Carmack doesn't have a CS degree. Mark Zuckerberg doesn't have a CS degree.

I bet they all wish they knew more than they do... and work at removing that lack of knowledge for themselves.

I am a big fan of education, even of the CS variety, but a degree is one way to get an education, not the only way. And 'change the world' isn't in the textbooks.

I apologize if the below seems like a rant, but hopefully it'll help you feel less "overwhelmed" at the amount of stuff you can learn in CS / IT.

Many years ago (Makes me sound old...) I dropped out of a CS degree to pursue archaeology, and then dropped out of that when I ran out of money and needed a job...

That job (and all the subsequent jobs) taught me a lot about people and business, and trained me with the discipline to finish jobs by deadlines, work with the people around you, remain calm under pressure (most of the time...) etc. All of the time I was working I was training myself. I bought O'Reilly books on algorithms, read RFC's, specs, source code and anything else curiosity led me to.

Recently I left a position, and had to interview, choose and train my replacement. The person who got the job wasn't the most qualified. On paper, they only had half of the job requirements, but during the interview process I realized that this person learnt quickly. This person picked up new concepts, procedures and entirely new skill sets during the 3 weeks of one-on-one training, and they're still doing well in the position from all accounts.

What I'm getting at is that, although "safe" hiring practice is to pick people with CS degrees, there are many people out there who recognize learning ability, passion and personal motivation to be sometimes more important.

Don't lose hope, be confident, be honest, and don't stop learning.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope others out there in a position to hire have the mentality you do. I was a bit discouraged because it took me about 4 months to find my first job as a dev, and at no point during any of my interviews did anyone care to test if I had the aptitude to learn.

Great engineers aren't great because of a CS degree; they're great because every time they saw the mountain of stuff they didn't know, they climbed it. When they got to the top and saw another mountain, they kept on climbing.

If you keep going, there will be a point where you'll be excited to know that you always have more to learn.

There's a big difference between being a developer and being somebody with a CS degree. In my experience with hiring developers, I always value people being self-taught. This means you made things work!

To me, that's the difference between a developer and a programmer. A programmer might write technically better code, but often gets stuck when something does not work as intended as is often the case in web browsers. A developer will find a way to make it work, and make it work well for the user.

So don't sell yourself short and keep on learning. You may in fact be more desirable than somebody with a CS degree.

There are people who really believe CS degrees make people better programmers. Avoid those people as much as possible. Once you're in the industry, experience and reputation matter much more.

Your most likely practical problem, if you don't have another STEM degree, would be math-related. Self-study or just taking individual classes can fix that, but honestly, the vast majority of development work these days doesn't care about anything past basic algebra, if even that.

A degree is just a piece of paper. I have one. It has 'Phi Beta Kappa' printed on it, but most people don't know or care what that means.

When I look at it, I see a cloud full of rain. The rain drops fall on the earth and water a seed that grows into a sapling, then into a large strong tree. After that, the tree is cut down and becomes paper. So when I hold my college degree, I'm holding a cloud, some rain drops and lot's of sunshine. That's all.

That could apply to any paper. Which honestly makes books even more awesome.

I only did a minor in CS and struggled a lot with feelings of inadequacy at my first job. Don't let it get to you - as long as you're constantly improving your craft and learning, you'll find that you'll surpass the people with CS degrees who don't keep learning.

Try to find a senior engineer who can mentor you if possible, and ask other engineers to do code reviews of your pull requests (the criticism is invaluable as long as you're humble and welcome it).

Additionally, engineering is more than just knowing algorithms and syntax and design patterns. A lot of the really important lessons (how to talk to non-technical people, how to push back on requirements, how to prioritize issues) are things that only come with professional experience and really can't be taught in a classroom. In that regard, you're on a level playing field with people who have a CS degree.

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