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Comment by derekp7 | Hacker News Reader

So with the old start menu, users were looking at the start menu when they opened it. That makes perfect sense -- why else would you open the start menu if you didn't want to look at it? However, it also took up a smaller section of the screen, so you could more readily find what you are looking at. With the Metro screen, I have to play Where's Waldo whenever I want to find an app (I have the same problem with Gnome 3 shell, trying to find an app icon in that massive wasteland).

But that's just me -- I also didn't like the sliding start menu design either (Windows 7, KDE 4), where submenus open in the same space as the folder icons -- I'd rather, when clicking on a submenu, have it open into new screen real estate like any of the traditional menus.

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How can you more readily find something in a smaller space? And the new start menu is much easier to organize then the old start menu.

>How can you more readily find something in a smaller space?

Is this a serious question?

Yeah. By default, the Win7 start menu shows 10 most recent apps, then if you click "all programs" it shows a couple dozen little icons (about 1/3 of my menu) at once. If you have to scroll around to find little things, it takes longer than just looking at a single static page of larger icons.

Well I use the start menu quit often, but almost never the "all programs", maybe I'm not the one.

Also I think the "start menu" argument encompass in reality the whole concept of Metro against traditional desktop UI.

If you don't remember the XP/Vista classic start menu, it's a linear list that expands to the height of the screen (and it takes multiple columns if the height isn't sufficient); no scrolling, no (or limited) two-dimensional scan. Even better, the list can be sorted for fast searching.

It's a good question because there are a handful of variables at play. Size of the window, density of objects, the layout of objects, the ordering of objects, etc.

Look at the window on the far left of your task bar, and tell me if you can read the system clock while looking at it. Now tell me if you can make out what the window directly next to it on the taskbar is while still looking at the first one. Peripheral vision is a limitation.

Try to find a needle in a pincushion. Then try to find a needle in a haystack.

It's more like "try to find the needle in a pincushion" became "try to find the spear in the haystack", since icons/tiles can be much larger if you want.

A spear in a haystack is still harder to find than a needle in a pincushion.

Peripheral vision.

This http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/mrseb-... is much easier to browse with peripheral vision.

Ok, so the larger icons make them easier to see out of the corner of your eye, but they are further away, making them harder. But I can see how it can go either way depending on your vision, and if you wear glasses, etc. But after looking at this screen, I'm a bit lost. The icon on the left column, third down -- I'm not sure what that one does (looks like maybe Skype? And the 4 additional boxes embedded in it, are linked to those contacts pictured?) -- same with the icon next to it wit hthe guy's picture . And the one toward the top with the two squirrels looking at each other?

I'm really hoping that this all makes sense once you start using it, as I'm going to have to make a decision on what to upgrade my parents' computer to (Win 7 or Win 8) -- I don't want to confuse them.

The one in the left column is your Contacts. The individual photos are just photos - they all go the the same place when you click anywhere on the button. The guy's photo says "Photos" on it. It just goes to your photos list when you click it, not to that particular photo. And the squirrels open the Bing app. Bing makes a big deal about their daily photo, I guess the app icon updates each day to match.

Edit: I agree it looks crazy, but at least it behaves consistently!

Ah, my bad -- the picture was scaled down, and I didn't click to make it full size. I see label text now. Although part of the word "photos" is washed out against the background. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, it might be helpful to use a font with a contrasting outline color around it to prevent this washout effect.

So your problem isn't with the small-start screen vs big screen, but with the density of information? With the Metro Start Screen you can customize apps, folders, and their sizes to your liking, or just type what application you want and hit enter to launch it.

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