Comment by nuweborder | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nuweborder | Hacker News Reader

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Continuing to write code, allows the profession itself to continue to be looked at as a commodity. It keeps people in jobs, and unfortunately keeps many creative thinkers out of the loop. As it is, only programmers can write code effectively enought to produce innovative web sites and therefore, web companies that reinvent the web as we know it, and produce masses of wealth. If we did not use code, not only could we be more efficient with producing these websites, becasue we would not be also producing even greater code errors, and via numerous different types of code that are all used for different things and are not designed to work well together, becasue the programmer wants to keep a monopoly on it, but all creative thinkers that have brilliant ideas on how to utilize software and the web to better the world, and the worlds of business and technology, will be also to contribute their ideas. The bottom line is that tyically, the most creative people are those whom are natural artists. But these artists arenot techies, and therefore cannot translate their creative ideas to the web or software without including the mind of a programmer. This goes for anyone with a great idea. If you have a great idea for software or the web, but then partner with a programmer to carryout your ideas. Make sure you stay on top of your game. Because just like when a story gets passed along through many people, when your idea gets translated into code from someone else, there is a lot of room for error and distortion. Just as it is when a programmer is forced to deal with numerous different programming languages just to express what they want to create. Errors occur. As youtube and digg have both cut out the middleman in video media and news, and allow the consumer to make the choice as to what they like, why not cut out the middle man(main stream media, or programming), and allow all creative people to build and create without code, but via a universal point and click type program? Let the creation come directly from the source. Until we the consumers, and the creative thinkers demand this, we will never stop writing code.

You're saying programmers aren't creative people. I disagree--programmers, like good musicians, are intensely creative people with a remarkable degree of technical ability. "allow all creative people to build and create without code"? That's like saying "allow all creative people to play songs and paint beautiful landscapes without having to strum guitar strings or wave paintbrushes around". And as it turns out, that's possible--you can play other instruments, or draw with computer rendering tools, if you don't mind a slightly tone or a different "look", and still end up with good art. But good art is hard in and of itself.

Knowing how to express an idea in code is easy. It's easier as languages get more high-level but it's easy enough now. But knowing what ideas to express, and having ideas that are consistent enough, have the right tonality and the right balance and the right leanness to express, is the difficult part. Playing piano is about knowing what keys to hit, not how to hit the keys. Same with programming. If your fingers are too short, slow, and fat to play the piano, play trumpet. If the incidental parts of one programming language are difficult or useless to you, use another.

Programmers are definately creative and very skilled. What I mean is that there is often something lost in translation anytime you take a creative idea from one person to another, just as happens when a story is told. In my opinion, programming language needs itself, can hinder the creative ideas of many whom do not know programming, and do not have time to learn it all. By the time they take valuable years to learn, their idea is lost in translation and is now old. If that person could have developed their idea without code, we'd have much greater choice in creative sites and software because the process of creation is easier. Its the same as how YouTube has allowed millions to upload their own videos and choose whats important and interesting, or how Digg has allowed users to choose what news is of relevance. In this case, am I saying that mainstream media professionals are not cretive? No. But that's exactly what these two companies have done. They have cut newpaper companies and mainstream broadcasters out, and allowed the user to be creative and broadcast and post directly to other users. Thats what having a program that would allow non programmers to create would offer. Because of YouTube and Digg, we as individual online users, are able to see and experience a much greate variety of entertainment and relevant information chosen upon by our peers and not those that control media, and allows many creative people that are not typical movie stars, music artists or celebrities, to become well known, famous and express themselves and their ideas directly to the masses, without the mainstream media controllers (or programmers), and with absolutely nothing lost in translation. We should treat programming the same as we are not treating web 2.0. How can we push a true web 2.0, with the main aspect of the building of these sites still functioning as web 0.0? Programmers are great and creative. And presently, without them, there would be not web, and my companywould not exist, and nor would google, digg, youtube, or any other site. I work directly with my programmer for my startup daily. But if this was in place, it would help to harbor much creater creativity because everyone could get involved directly.

Just a note--if you use paragraph breaks and try to structure your thoughts instead of spewing long stream-of-consciousness comments, it makes it easier to understand what you're saying.

YouTube and Digg simplified distribution, not creation. Distributing software is no more difficult than distributing anything else. What you're talking about isn't analogous to allowing non-celebrities to create music, what you're talking about is allowing people who don't know how to sing, play an instrument, or compose a song to create music.

I've looked over your business's website. It seems like you have a good idea and a useful target market, but the web implementation is questionable, and there's nothing stopping someone from taking your same basic idea, executing it better, and eating your lunch.

Thanks for the constructive feedback on the site. Point well taken. I have thought about that very issue. Too bad I'm not a programmer. I am working with my programmer in implementing the site as I invision it. Will be sure to communicate that to him, and get back on the drawing board to address those issues. Have any specific suggestions? Or, any recommendations on programmers? Thanks again.

Good programmers are creative thinkers.

"Middle men" are usually doing something of value otherwise there wouldn't be a need for them, and they wouldn't be around.

It's not because of a conspiracy that programmers are needed. You could use a "point and click type program", but they just don't work that well. And programming via a visual tool instead of writing code by tapping on a keyboard doesn't change the fact that you are programming.

That's the point. Can we develop a program that is more efficient and effective than the present point and click programs? I know this wont change the fact that programming technically is going on. The point of the original question is, can we accomplish this without code? Not without programming. Think bigger. Can you program without code? Or atleast without code on the front end (i.e. Dreamweaver). But in a much better, more effective and dynamic way. Think about it. Programming was originally done on a black screen with green typing, and no mouse. We've improved the technology greatly. Why can't it be improved upon even more, or increase productivity, and ease of use? Check out http://www.yola.com, http://www.wix.com, http://www.weebly.com, or the new http://flooha.com/. They all have the right idea, just need to take it to new heights. Automate the code on the backend, for many to be able to focus on being creative on the front end as they see fit to their site liking and their own vision.

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