[1] With a sliver of a possible out if you support ending all legal recognition of marriage.
[1] With a sliver of a possible out if you support ending all legal recognition of marriage.
Why I will never be converted to gay marriage
...the recent institution of civil partnerships seemed to be the final necessary reform, giving homosexuals the right to inherit each other’s property, just as may a man and his wife; and if they want a family, there is now no barrier to their adopting children – in the case of homosexual men, so long in error bundled together with paedophiles and pederasts, an astonishing recognition of moral responsibility.
Why then do they and lesbians demand the right to marry? Indeed, how many of us have made that demand? One in 20? One in 10? Most of us... are content with civil partnerships and have not pleaded for gay marriage. But every minority has within it a core of single-issue politicians and protesters who are never satisfied and always ask for more, and homosexuals, both male and female, are no exception.
Since the institution of civil partnerships there has been no impediment to their celebration with a party as extravagant as any wedding, but not all homosexuals are so exhibitionist. Most of us are content with what we now have within the law, and are happy to respect the deeply-held belief of sincere, thoughtful and informed Christians for whom marriage is the one sacrament in which we cannot share.
We have wasted our resources on the wrong campaign – the battle still to be won is against prejudice, the most insidious of enemies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10729717/Brian-Sewe...
If you could look beyond that joke of a concept you can see it's really about EQUAL rights, not about samesies.
To some the concept of marriage means something, to others it's a way to get insurance or better tax deals. This debate is about equal rights. period.
As a side note, the only real argument i've heard against same sex marriage was it opens the doors to lawsuits, because if you have the same rights you can be sued you when you infringe them. And that's what the true opponents of equal rights fear.
pps the only thing about the quote that makes any sense is it is wasted resources, this should not even be a debate.
No, it is not. One can actually have empathy with gays and believe that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
I don't agree with those beliefs, but I'm speaking from experience that there are many people who believe that marriage has a very religious connotation.
Can you please cite a single interaction in which Brendan has looked down upon someone personally due to their sexual identity?
You can't just slap "but it's my religionnnnn" on something and call it a day. It's like you haven't bothered to read the rhetoric that right-wing politicians used in the segregated South or apartheid-era South Africa.
All we know is that he donated $1000 to reaffirm, in law, that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
Perhaps he believes that the state should remove all recognition of marriage and just recognize civil unions going forward for everyone with the benefits from marriage.
We don't know, because he hasn't talked about his beliefs. And honestly, I don't believe they're that important when Mozilla has reaffirmed their strive for equality.
Just a heads-up, this is a strawman developed by anti-same-sex-marriage proponents to provide a possible (though not plausible) reason other than denying people their rights why someone might oppose same-sex marriage (and you also have to buy that someone who wanted to grant same-sex couples those legal right would vote/donate/campaign/etc to deny them).
If you're going to assert it, you need to have specific evidence that the individual in question actually believes that.
Brendan is (or was at the time of donation) ignorant, there's no sense in disputing that. I'm just tired of people labelling him as anti-gay, bigot, homophobe, etc.
I know him. You're wrong. He's an unrepentant homophobic bigot.
Ideally laws would be reformed in such a way that the priviledges granted today are tied to something other than you are a man and woman and want to marry. It could be just you are two or more people who want to marry. In my opinion things especially tax benefits should be tied to the fact that you are actually providing a service (like raising kids, your own or adopted, but maybe just caring for each other financially is enough).
I think you might be overblowing the horn just slightly there.
Sigh.
Nobody is being oppressed.
In most progressive countries, civil unions are available, which confer exactly the same benefits and rights as a traditional marriage.
In fact, in many countries, you don't even need to do that - simply having a de-facto relationship will be enough.
So basically, it's about a word - in this case "marriage", which has traditionally been between a man and a woman, they want to redefine it to include any two humans.
I'm not saying that tradition is "right" just because we've done it that way for thousands of years - maybe it's "right" that words should change over time.
However, to try to claim the moral high ground by making disingenuous comparisons to Apartheid is pretty disgusting for all those that actually suffered through Apartheid.
What next? Comparisons to the pogrums?
[1] An aside: Do you know anything at all about apartheid? Did you actually protest against it? Do you you know about the deep links between the LGBT-rights movement and anti-apartheid movement, which was a factor that led to South Africa's being the only constitution in Africa, and one of the first in the world, to give formal equal rights to the LGBT community and subsequently legalize gay marriage?
It's not exactly like these interracial couples were offered a "union" which conferred the same rights, but don't call it a marriage.
But even if they were, it's still not close to the current battle over gay "marriage".
For most of recorded human history, the concept of marriage was very much tied to the idea of family.
For example, Susan Treggiari, a professor of Roman history writes "Matrimonium is an institution involving a mother, mater. The idea implicit in the word is that a man takes a woman in marriage, in matrimonium ducere, so that he may have children by her".
Homosexual relationships cannot by definition create a family - they are not a procreative relationship.
I'm not saying they're wrong because of this - this is simply a biological fact.
This is what a lot of gay marriage activists seem to miss - it's not opposition to the idea of them together. If they want to be together, they will be together.
It's simply that they wish to come along and redefine an existing word, to fit a new definition of what a family is.
Perhaps as a society, we will agree - and we will allow "marriage" between any two humans, and gender will become irrelevant.
However, to simply come along and assume, oh, a man and woman get it, so a man and man should get it automatically is either being intentionally blind, or very presumptuous.
A man and woman family is different to one composed of a man and a man - not because one is more valuable or not valuable - but simply because of their roles.
It's like saying, oh, a woman gets pregnant, so she must be more valuable than the man in a marriage. Well no, they are different - they play different parts, and we call them different things.
Yeah, there's a reason people think people who support straight marriage while opposing gay marriage are homophobic bigots.
(And probably anthropology thrown in there as well).
I don't get it, for people who claim to be super-rational, and only believing in "evidence", some of you atheists are a strangely illogical bunch.
And then when you say "Err...but wait, did you actually think this through - what about X?", they start throwing around labels like BIGOT, BIGOT!!!! NYAH NYAH!!!
Ok, I'll try and put in in HN tl'dr terms =).
Man + Woman = Procreation
That is a fact of life (literally, the fact of life) - human's engage in sexual reproduction.
For most of recorded human civilisation, we've had marriages - to try and foster the family unit, and engage in aforesaid procreation.
Now, in modern times, we've had an upsurge in homosexual relationships - some people decide to have sexual partnerships with same-gendered people.
Now, this can't by definition by procreative - which for most of recorded history was the point of marriage and families.
So some parts of society want them to come up with a new term to describe this relationship, which is sexual in nature, but not about families or procreation.
However, the other group say that because their relationships are sexual in nature, and they still like the concept of kids, they should still use the same label.
For some reason denying gays their equal rights is somehow ok as long as the person is not foaming at the mouth, and if they're refusing to be open-minded about their religious beliefs. I don't get it.
I oppose ALL state-sanctioned unions because I don't believe it's the state's business to say who can and cannot be in an official relationship (hetero, homo, or all the poly/group unions). As long as the people consent, why does the state need to approve?
Considering marriage is a non-binding contract (no fault divorce), the contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on (even prenups are overruled with alarming frequency).
From the state's perspective, what does approving marriage offer? It offers monitoring and control (and a religious position), but almost nothing else. Child guardianship is already a non-marital issue. Last will and testaments along with living wills (if enforced properly) deal with most legal issues pertaining to marriage. Minor modifications to tax law deals with the rest.
If someone wants to be married, they should go to their local church, mosque, synagogue, or whatever. If they want legal protection, have a will and they should sign the proper docs (even married persons should do this). If they want a binding contract, they should contact a lawyer and get one (just as they would with a prenup if they want something semi-binding).