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Comment by hershel | Hacker News Reader

Sweden offers a nice solution to this: responsible unions.

In Sweden there are 2 unions, One for white collar workers and one for blue collar employees. The salary rates/hikes are industry wide.They are usually determined by the competitive part of the economy - the export sector and than applied to everybody.

The unions understand their role as protectors of employees, but on the other hand, understand the need for Sweden to remain competitive and the huge responsibility put on them by representing so many people without hurting the economy. So they come with reasonable demands.

All this is supported by the Swedish mentality of fairness, which makes employees happy just taking their fair share.

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I'd say this is easier in a society like Sweden, with a homogeneous culture and relatively small population.

I think the reason it's easier in Sweden is the key cultural value of fairness. America is more of a "mine" society, where everyone cares about what's "mine" and lacks an ability to self-moderate based on what's fair or right.

I wouldn't generalize here since there are people in every society who are above petty desires for material gain. It's just that in the US, we have significantly more wealth-addicts than any other country, and it leads to a bad perception of the nation as a whole.

Another thing about self-moderation: my consulting firm gets an occasional contract at a public school. I know it sounds terrible to say this, but if these kids are the future of the US, I want to move somewhere else. I went to public school myself, and the value system that the kids subscribe to nowadays is bloated by our celebration of people who make immense amounts of money. There's also this fucked up sense of entitlement, an addiction to social media, and a lack of desire to explore anything beyond the assigned schoolwork.

> I know it sounds terrible to say this, but if these kids are the future of the US, I want to move somewhere else.

> fucked up sense of entitlement, an addiction to social media, and a lack of desire to explore anything beyond the assigned schoolwork.

Has it occurred to you that since your generation is responsible for the profoundly sad state of our economy, educational system, and justice system, you don't have much room to criticize Generation Y?

That's a strange argument.

I'm a person. I didn't cause economic or education downturns, and my firm actually does the opposite - we create jobs in education and improve core standards. This is a classic situation of critic meets the generalist.

That seems rather simplistic and is not borne out by looking at other small homogenous cultures.

I suspect it is more to do with having a very long history of democratic and social decision making in Viking culture.

The Viking Thing was electing kings by vote a millennium ago.

No kidding. Just think of all the political squabbles that would vanish overnight if the USA was, for example, 99% WASP

I assume you are being sarcastic, given the history of protestantism. Come to think of it, that reminds me of an Emo Phillips joke:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?"

He said, "Baptist church of god!"

I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!"

I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!"

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

I don't know if I'm being sarcastic or not. On the one hand, you & your joke are totally right. On the other hand, if we get into a bitter battle over just 1 or 2 things, maybe we really could make lots of progress everywhere else.

I am not so sure, the pilgrims who settled in New-England were running away from persecution in old England, not for being protestant, as England was protestant, but rather for being the wrong sort of protestant.

Then, they proceeded to spend the first really bad winter eating each other and when numbers picked up with more colonists, they got into the swing of hanging Quakers.

I feel like this would remove all incentive.

Well you could trust your 'feelings' or you can look at the evidence and determine whether or not Sweden is a prosperous society with a good standard of living, competitive businesses and motivated people.

I visited Sweden for a couple weeks during a school program in high school. My feelings were largely based on my experiences during that trip meeting tons of students and staying with a family there.

Honestly there were tons of drugs, little motivation, and a happy yet seemingly poor society. The mom I stayed with complained endlessly about how her lazy son was throwing his life away.

Maybe I just had a misleading experience. But I just can't say I saw it the same as you do.

Sweden is number 7 in nominal per capita GDP. A couple spots above the US. I would not consider that a "poor" country.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nom...

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