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Comment by gggggggg | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft make some of the best keyboards there are. Just did some tests on my Sidewinder keyboard, no issue at all there.

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Microsoft used to make some really good keyboards. But about 8 years ago they started making junk. The last MS keyboard I could actually type on was the Wireless Multimedia one (now discontinued).

Keyboards in the last few years have had:

- Mushy key feel. I can't tell when I've actually done a keystroke.

- Keys that are hard to strike (need to press on them just right, or they hang up or don't register). This is particularly bad on the wider keys.

- Keytops too close together; I mash multiple keys.

- Embarrassingly bad features: Function-key lock is the classic one here. Let's not talk about the 'diamond' arrow keys that have occasionally appeared.

I'd buy half a dozen "Natural" keyboards with decent Cherry hardware running the show, ESC in the right spot, and no wacky features. I don't even need a numeric keypad. I'd pay more money for some remapping (though just about any 20 cent microcontroller will have enough EEPROM to do this).

Whaddya say, Microsoft? Care to make a good keyboard again?

If you like laptop style chicklet keys (you may not), Microsoft's new sculpt ergonomic keyboard is pretty nice. I replaced my natural 4000 with it recently and found it much nicer on the mushiness scale. It's pleasantly clicky, but not cherry clicky. It even fits in a bag much better due to the detached numeric keypad. The mouse seems a lot better than the one that came with the 4000, enough for me to overlook the lack of extra buttons compared to my logitech G500. My one gripe is the positioning of the period key seems just a little off, something that has taken a few months to get used to hitting without miskeying.

Edit: incidentally, this keyboard, despite being fairly new, only gets 5 or 6 keys on the rollover test at the top of the article

I see this comment quite a bit, with regard to not being able to detect a keystroke, and I honestly don't understand it.

For one, I type far too quickly for auditory feedback to be of any meaningful use. Second, a combination muscle memory and spring feedback usually catch situations where I've missed a key (I can feel that I hit it too lightly). Third, I find some of the mechanical keyboards to be too stiff and require more force to fully press each key, leaving my arms more fatigued at the end of the day.

I suppose it's individual preference, but the soft clicking I get from my laptop or Microsoft ergo keyboard (low-travel laptop style keys) are more than enough for me.

To add to your list of keyboard gripes though:

- Keys with sloped sides (an extension of "keytops too close together") that cause me to hit adjacent keys when I slightly miss

- "Fn" and Ctrl keys swapped. I was working with keyboard in a seldom-used office yesterday that caused me to repeatedly clear lines when I meant to hit Ctrl+C. I will be replacing that hunk o' junk.

- Absolutely no separation between Function keys and numeric keys.

Makes me want to bust out my Northgate keyboard w fn keys on the left and top, two full keypads, Reboot button and detachable coil cable. Weighs almost as much as an IBM kbd.

Why make good stuff when you can over-engineer and over-sell garbage?

Wish I could say the same about my Logitech keyboard... Sometimes it gives up after 3 keys, other times after 5. It seems to be totally random.

I also wonder if there is a problem with the diagram. Sometimes when I was pressing 10 or more keys, the enter key would turn on.

It's easy to take good hardware design for granted. Suddenly that Das Keyboard I've been eyeing doesn't look so expensive...

Beds and keyboards are deserving of discrimination. Personally, I adore my das keyboards.

http://www.daskeyboard.com/ All keyboards should have a couple of USB ports built in, that's a great idea.

Welcome to 1998 :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_USB_Keyboard_B.jpg

And this was continuing the practise of Apple's previous Apple Desktop Bus keyboards (like the beloved M0116 http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Standard_Keyboard ) which had ADB ports on both sides, mainly so that you could daisy-chain the mouse onto the keyboard. It's really dismal that this hasn't become standard on USB keyboards.

The extended AT layout one always seemed to be more beloved: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard

Back then Macintoshes were advertised as "keyboard not included" so Apple got to soak you for a very well-engineered item.

> The extended AT layout one always seemed to be more beloved

Perhaps: M0115 vs. M0116 is probably the quintessential AT vs. compact layout conflict, though, so I'm sure there were plenty of supporters on either side. I also assume that the compact M0116 actually sold significantly more, as I've almost never seen an extended keyboard used with a non-modular Mac like the SE or Classic. The M0115 was consciously part of the Macintosh II revolution (or counter-revolution?): SJ was famously among the people who presumably preferred the M0116 http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/841771 .

I picked up a Max Keyboard Blackbird during a recent sale. It's the only tenkeyless mechanical keyboard I could find with a built-in USB hub. The backlight is a nice bonus.

The keyboard defaults to 6KRO. When I set it to NKRO (over USB), the OS X keyboard viewer showed as many keys as I could hold down. However, it no longer recognized the Caps Lock key as Control, as mapped in the System Preferences.

Be advised that the Das is no longer being made by Costar. They've moved to an unnamed OEM in China, and most people feel that the new keyboards aren't as nice. There are lots of other good mechanical keyboards out there, though - Filco, WASD, etc. I have a WASD and I love it.

My Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 has some really annoying ghosting that forced me to remap keys in at least one game because I couldn't move using the arrow keys and shoot at the same time.

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