Comment by chimeracoder | Hacker News Reader

Comment by chimeracoder | Hacker News Reader

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> “Is that a Muslim or Hipster beard?” by a crew of three NYPD officers in Times Square.

I'm very curious to hear the full story behind this one.

On a separate note - I used to work in Chelsea[0]. Two or three days of the week, as I was leaving the subway, I would see NYPD questioning and/or frisking a young, black man or women. I saw this happen for months, and never once was the person being questioned/frisked white, east Asian, or any other race.

Oh, and by the way:

> The main I didn’t file any kind of report or move forward at all was that I don’t have badge numbers.

NEVER ask a police officer for his/her badge number. Look for it and try to memorize if you want, but don't let them know you're trying to learn it. I know someone who ended up doing ~18 months in prison for doing exactly this. (The official charge was "obstruction of justice" and/or "resisting arrest", but that's basically all he actually did. Once it's clear to the cops that you're looking to report them, they'll do everything in their power[2] to punish and discredit you).

[0] Affluent, primarily white, gentrified (former) gayborhood, for those unfamiliar with NYC.

[1] This is not the same as the NYPD standing by the tables asking people to let them look through their bags (which you can refuse, by the way!)

[2] And possibly even things not in their power

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can track the license plate numbers of cars.

Assuming you meant "conspicuous", the problem with this idea is that when such officers want to participate in less than stellar behavior, they will obscure the numbers (by putting on a jacket, etc.). This could be justified to their superiors for any number of "tactical" reasons. After all, many cops regularly go on duty in unmarked cars or in plainclothes.

Cops are supposed to cite drivers for license plate covers and I see them out in NY the time--how can we expect them to enforce the display of their own numbers?

The only part of the uniform that police can't easily modify is the badge, which is also the part that unambiguously proves that they are police when necessary. (Not that most citizens would know how to authenticate the badge of their local police, much less those of all the federal LEAs [1]).

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_law_enforcemen...

IMO, raid jackets should have the police ID number written in the same font as POLICE (or other agency) on the back, and on the front in 2-3" high numbers.

The headband of a uniform cap would also work well in addition to a name tape.

There should also be a requirement that police identify themselves by name/number verbally in interactions when it is practicable to do so; e.g. "You are under arrest, I'm Officer Johnson badge #3898390 of the NYPD, ..." Coupled with audio and video recording devices, it helps create a record.

I'll add to that. Public access to the recorded video and audio via an established process managed by a third party (to prevent access to inappropriate content which would otherwise occur with unlimited public access).

you mean conspicuous - inconspicuous means "not clearly visible or attracting attention".

I thought he was being ironic.

"I want x to be subtle in the way that a shotgun to the face is subtle" i.e. not subtle at all.

I had exactly the same thought as rdl. "Inconspicuous" means "easily overlooked", but obviously "inconspicuous in the same way that football jersey numbers are inconspicuous" means "as easily overlooked as the number on a football jersey". There's no usage error there, just laudably vivid imagery.

I suspect this was ironic understatement. E.g., "As subtle as a roundhouse kick to the head."

NEVER ask a police officer for his/her badge number.

I can believe that this is good advice.

But I also have to mention that "get the officer's badge number" has been the generic advise given to people protesting/aiming-to-stop police misbehavior. And back twenty years ago, it might have been good advice (for all I know).

But here we have the quandary of every legal action people to resist the system within the system.

The poor people who passively take the punishment meted out to them have learned over a long, painful period that standing out and resisting gets them problems. And the cops learn ways to teach them this if behavior X becomes a serious impediment to their standard way of operating.

I know for serious charges, where the courts feel a need to keep the "plea bargaining" racket going, pleading not guilty is an invitation to an absurdly disproportionate sentence. It may be that people could actually get a chance at fairness if many began to plead not guilty (as the article suggests) but it seems likely the courts would begin "kicking butt and naming names" if such behavior slowed it down and that pleading guilty might become a similar invitation to abuse that asking an officer for his badge number seems to be now.

Which is a long way to say we need systemic reform that individual protest isn't enough to get.

I believe it was specifically that he responded with "you can't fucking ask me that" which sent things down the bad path. They shouldn't have asked him at all (but were probably bored?), but "you can't X" to a cop is usually going to provoke them.

I was referring more to what led up to that - how they accosted him, etc.

(Also, what was going through their heads when they said this - not that we'll ever know, of course).

Actually, that was precisely it. I was in Times Square where there were tons and tons of cops, and not all that many revelers. (It was a really cold night, IIRC.) I heard the comment, looked around, realized they were cops and completely without thinking said, "You can't fucking ask that." Next thing, they asked for ID and as I began to reach for my wallet was thrown up against something by the three officers. It happened really, really quickly--just like being mugged.

I should add that this was on the eve of the Super Bowl, and the NFL had set up quite the party in Times Square.

> NEVER ask a police officer for his/her badge number. Look for it and try to memorize if you want, but don't let them know you're trying to learn it.

A perfect use for google-glass.

You have an orphan note on [1]

I'm going to guess that your friend didn't go to prison for 18 months solely for asking an officer for their badge number.

I went to court for eating a sandwich in the street. I'm pretty sure this could have happened.

EDIT: here's the full story: http://p1x3l.com/article/121/cowboy-america/

Did you plead guilty? A lot of countries ask if you have ever been convicted of a crime and you'd have to answer yes to that question (no matter how ridiculous the 'crime')

I did, didn't want to go change my flight back to France and go to court, so I plaid guilty and sent 25$ by mail. Never received an answer so I did change my flight and went to court to be told that I had already paid and didn't need to be there.

My friend who was drinking went there without paying and they told him he could spend the afternoon in a "session" with other people and not pay the 25. He did it, it was mostly people sharing their experiences about how they got there.

One guy got into an argument with a cop so the cop convoked him for peeing in the street, another one had a restaurant and his table was too far on the sidewalk... stuff like that.

Do you mean that this wasn't the official charge? Because I'm sure the official charge was something else.

There was no official charge in the Stop-and-Frisk incident. I'm comparing that to a very professional (almost apologetic) Central Park trespassing ticket that ended up getting thrown out, as most of them do.

I'm assuming I was not charged with anything after the stop-and-frisk because they figured out I was probably a lot more trouble for them than I was worth. In this case, appearances were deceiving...what I was wearing at that time, due to the weather, screamed "punk kid/hipster" far more than the "Privileged Accountant who passes for White" clothing I had on underneath.

I believe everyone who's saying a person of color or otherwise underprivileged person would have had a much different outcome is 100% correct.

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