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Comment by ChuckMcM | Hacker News Reader

One of the really hard things about setting up the Bangalore office for NetApp was getting around people unwilling to confront their managers (which is taken as a given in the US). One of the engineers created a game of 'spot the crap' which was basically sets of statements where one was bogus. And trying to reward/incent people for identifying it and raising it.

Although, when the collapse finally comes, and you've just accused someone of lying about understanding and they finally come clean and it walks all the way back to a guy they paid in school to help with their CS classes, then you can start to make progress. I was not in the office but the stories I heard of people being scared of being fired because they didn't "know" something were rampant. NetApp really tried to amplify the message that saying you knew when you didn't was a more egregious affront than saying you didn't know.

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Sorry Chuck, I don't think you understand our culture here. I stay in Bangalore. Never visited any country. I was born and raised in Bangalore. I've stayed here in Bangalore all my life.

>>getting around people unwilling to confront their managers

Almost every time I've tried to do this, I've been screwed. The only option after that even I have is to go work under a different manager. You really have to play nice, actually that's putting in mildly. You have to show super sycophancy towards your manager, if you want anything that looks like a raise, promotion or a foreign travel.

Often you are just screwed if you don't belong to your manager's state, or don't speak his mother tongue.

I've been pulled up and scolded inside meeting rooms even for mild and faint feedback, let alone direct confrontation. Some times in the line of 'You don't want me as your enemy'.

That's one big reason why Indian IT is such deep irrecoverable mess. Good people get nothing, have no scope for growth. If you are good its assumed you are going to sacrifice your life working for everybody. To get anything you have to be a super sycophant. Or belong to your manager's state or speak his/her mother tongue.

So the only option for good people here is:

1. Immigrate to a western country. Get treated like crap. If you are luck you might get citizenship in a decade or two. Else get ready to go through putting up with crap for years.

2. Work in smaller teams of your mindset and do a start up.

As an Indian undergraduate who is looking forward to a job, I find this very intimidating. I have always known consultancy based companies are shit and treat employees none better than a herd of sheeps, too easy to get another one. But I had better thoughts about product companies.

I can suggest another option though, start building a portfolio and have open source contribution that put you out of the cheap crowd.I am sure there are enough jobs at good hourly rates for people who can deliver quality. Even our hacker news "seeking freelancer" thread s offer pretty amazing set of opportunities.

> As an Indian undergraduate who is looking forward to a job, I find this very intimidating.

Please don't. Because those of us who have good experiences do not find it particularly necessary to be vocal about it. There are good places and there are bad places i.e. you have a choice. Even if you start with a bad place, then don't think twice and quit the job the day it starts to suck. As for the culture, I worked for all sorts of managers and never experienced any cultural bias.

>>Often you are just screwed if you don't belong to your manager's state, or don't speak his mother tongue.

This is a typical South India problem. Not to say that North would be a fair game for south indians but it is still not that harsh from what I have seen.

People do try to get in a comfortable group based on common factors and Language in India is a great factor.

Sorry to hear about your experiences, nave you worked for NetApp? I've not been there since 2006 but if you were treated that way at NetApp I would like to know when and I'll see that information gets to the right people.

Isn't this pretty much how your country works? Why do you expect to be treated different in a specific situation (IT industry and your job) when that is the overall attitude anyways?

This is a southern Indian thing dude. Come to Pune.

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no corruption in Pune? Or that people across the country who go to Pune automatically get better?

This is an endemic problem across India.

We need broader cultural changes. I don't think I will ever see them in my lifetime or even in the next few generations. And merely going to a different place where there is the same problem with same people is hardly going to address any issue.

Places like Bangalore, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai etc or even private companies/MNC hardly solve(d) these issues. They just offered a bigger playground for such issues to come to play.

This is basically 'sarkari naukri', your old Indian government job all over again. Except that just with small time cosmetic changes.

You've clearly not experienced Marathi pride, then?

Some companies here have quite the reputation for being Maharashtrian strongholds where only locals are valued and promoted. And these aren't your tiny software shops; I'm talking machine-so-huge-you're-just-a-tiny-cog type companies.

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