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Comment by clarky07 | Hacker News Reader

It is interesting to see that much more of the world errs to the side of having sun later in the day. As someone who lives just on the other side of a timezone line in a green area, I can definitely see the appeal. It gets dark at 4-4:30 in the winter here, and it sucks. There is actually a bill in our state now to stay on daylight savings all year. I really hope we pass it and don't have to "fall back" next year.

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I so agree. Whenever I hear people say "changing the time twice a year sucks, we should stop doing that," I wonder whether they mean "let's ruin everything" (stay on 'standard' time all year) or "let's have daylight in winter too". This is rather a huge difference, and I wish they would always make it clear so I could tell whether to completely oppose or joyfully support them. :)

I think they mostly mean making daylight saving permanent, but have a recurring dread that maybe they don't.

This is one thing I miss about Saskatchewan, the big red mark in the middle of Canada. They are always on DST, which means you can watch the sunrise every clear winter morning and don't go home in pitch black world. It works just fine and no one misses the time change. It would save a lot of confusion and work much better IMHO.

Hey, you just solved my dread problem. If Canada gets rid of the time switch they won't do it in a way that forces Saskatchewan to change. (I'm in Alberta.)

Thanks!

I really don't like false times. I can put up with time zones because they are at least constant. Every time I adjust my clock because the government said so is a "the sky is green and 2 + 2 = 5" moment, especially since they moved the times in 2007 so that we only get a few months of "real" time.

Unless you've got an employer that's enforcing very specific hours, what's the difference? It you'd rather get up earlier, work earlier, and leave when it's still light, what's stopping you?

The number that we assign to a time of day doesn't have any intrinsic meaning, it's just a symbol.

I think you're underestimating the number of people who have what you consider "very specific work hours".

Of my friends, I think I'm one of the only ones who gets to dictate what time I go into and leave from work. I think it's fairly unique to the tech industry, this ability.

It is indeed just a symbol, time, but the symbol is given meaning by most people's employers, and as such ends up carrying significant meaning in a person's own life as well.

Among other things, children. Sure, I might be able to get up earlier, work earlier and leave when it's still light, but I still wouldn't have much time to spend with my kid during daytime.

Another example: bus frequency. You know, small stuff that adds up ;)

If shifting the timezone by an hour is a solution, then so is just shifting work hours by an hour. How do children change anything?

There may be other, poor, reasons, that it sucks for you (like other people insisting on going by a certain clock time) but I don't understand the children part.

School start times, for one.

the point is that business and school hours can be (and are) different in different countries. You can either change the timetables or the clock. To change the former requires more coordination throughout the society, hence we move the clock.

> what's the difference?

School hours, public transit hours, business open hours (banks, law-mandated bar closing times, etc.), friends who work at enforced hours (most people, in my experience).

Mainly because it's easier to get one government to shift their hours and thus the hours of everyone, businesses, government services, etc. at the same time, rather than relying on everyone to make a local distinction.

Though sometimes (like in Western China, where time is really off), businesses run on a 'de facto' local time zone (10-7 Beijing) rather than say 8-5 Beijing time

Similarly, the overall preference seems to be to shift things to a later time rather than earlier

There are lots of things that get run on a time of day basis that can't be controlled. I work for myself from home, so I can do whatever I want, but my wife is a teacher. They have a very set schedule as it happens.

Most employers that I know, while being somewhat flexible, still require being in the office for certain hours of the day, 10-3 seems to be popular in my area. If you want to work the rest of the hours early or late you can. Any way you look at it when it gets dark at 4 that doesn't leave much time for most people.

Always going to be less daylight in the winter, but I think the argument for moving the daylight later in the day is an easy one.

I prefer sun later in the day too. I moved to Japan three years ago and sunset in the winter is as early as 4:30 but sunset in the summer is never past 8 while the sun rises just after 4am.

I lived in the Canadian north when I was younger and used to love the summer nights when it would stay light until 10pm.

The sun rising at 4am sucks. It's a waste of daylight for 99% of the population.

This! I live in Poland, where sun usually raises 2-3 hours before i get up and leave house. It was such a joy to visit st petersburg, where days were shorter in theory, but mid-winder sun set around 7pm, so i actually had more time to enjoy the day.

I grew up in NW Indiana. We are were in the same Chicago's timezone which makes sense, but 20 miles to the south or east of us was on what we affectionately called "Farmer Fuck Up Time". they didn't change for DST. it sucked. hard. I remember calling ahead to ask what time it was when traveling to away games in high school.

Actually Indiana can be used as a test case of how to mess around w/ DST or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Indiana

I'd be interested to see how that does. I was researching starting a similar petition this year, but it seams that time zones are controlled by the federal government. The only option that states have is whether or not to be included in Daylight Savings Time.

So, California could permanently be on shitty Pacific Standard Time, but more optimal Pacific Daylight Time/Mountain Standard Time isn't an option without federal changes.

This is functionally equivalent to permanently moving into the next time zone eastwards and not observing daylight savings at all. That seems to be the more common interpretation than daylight savings year round.

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