Eg rarely does someone go to their boss with the thinking of "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway."
Every time ive asked for a raise its because I thought I deserved more. if you (my employer) disagree then I am happy to hear your thoughts on how I can do better but asking "why" just seems like stalling, as if you wanted me to think you didn't understand the expressed sentiment in asking for a raise.
To be honest this seems like passive aggressive management techniques to me, and I value honest straightforward employers who are proactive about employee happiness.
Has the market rate risen by 20% while you were here? A 20% raise for the same work is completely reasonable.
Were you being paid below market because at the time the startup was just scraping by and couldn't afford it? When that's over, you'll need pay your people much more for the exact same effort&results.
Although occasionally this may be the case (pay cuts), it seems clear that the employer absorbs the risk of entering into contract with the employee at a certain time, with a certain market price. Interesting that the employee gets to partake in the upside but the employer gets the downside, with the exception of course of the employee getting fired.
I wonder - if there were really a way to gauge the current market for X talent (sort of a glassdoor salary index) - could employers purchase "insurance" or hedge their hiring price with "employee securities"?
That being said - have you seen what happens in shrinking industries? Yes, there have been companies that renegotiate a 20% decrease in wages, and fire/replace those who don't agree; it's exactly symmetrical as growing demand professions where people either get their raises or leave and need to be replaced.
I don't understand why someone asking for a raise wouldn't be prepared to explain why they deserve more. Either reminding one's manager about past successes, or information about current market value, if you think you deserve more, you should be able to articulate why.
Really? I bet that happens all the time.
For example: "Here's how I made//saved you planets of sweaty money."
I simply think that a manager should be familiar enough with your contributions that they shouldn't need this information. If your boss is this unfamiliar with your contributions its pretty obvious they suck. I also think that a manager making you explain why you deserve a raise is fairly poor form. At this point we were already months past the point where i should have just gotten a raise without a conversation at all. If they had done that up front, I would not have been so quick to leave.
Perhaps it's something like: "I'll need to get approval/budget from higher up and they're going to ask me why. Maybe he can help me by telling why he thinks he should get one."
I respect that your experience may not have been pleasant but it's unfair to paint everyone in that position with the same brush. It would seem odd to me if simply asking for a raise out of the blue results in one.
When someone leaves due to being underpaid, if they are at all good at their job (and especially if they were hired at a low rate and have grown in capability during their time there), their former employer will usually end up spending more than the old employee wanted in the first place with all the inherent costs of hiring a replacement.
I'd react the same way GP did.
happiness(job) = a * job.workEnvironment + b * job.compensation - c * (possibleJob.compensation - job.compensation)
Some developers attach low values to b and c, but part of a manager's job is to maximise the work environment, and minimise the difference between compensation for jobs that the employee is qualified to do elsewhere and employee's current compensation (as long as management wants to retain the employee).
In principle, I agree but in practice I don't see how this is workable (unless you're trying to retain a star -- as opposed to all employees). It means the direct managers need to know how much the comp is elsewhere at all times. Who has energy to figure that out and meet all the demands of the day-to-day? On top of which, the spread of salaries/benefits might cover a wide range so how do you figure out where you fit (who should you really compare yourself to)? The simplest way is when you hear internally that X has left for company Y and got a pay-bump of Z%. It's the kind of thing people would expect the folks at HR to be looking into, rather than the engineering managers.
I'm not trying to justify the above but it does seem easy to understand why things are this way.
""I'll need to get approval/budget from higher up and they're going to ask me why."
My boss should be able to answer this, and he shouldn't need to hear it from me. We work together every day. If he needs me to give him a list of reasons why I deserve a raise and doesn't already understand those reasons, he's simply not a good boss. Also, fwiw, this person was the CEO, so they didn't need to get approval.
Maybe your boss should have known your market rate, the quality and quantity of your work, how important to the company you were, and that you wanted a raise because you felt you were being undervalued. Maybe he should have known you weren't comfortable being challenged and should have avoided it. But maybe he was giving you the opportunity to inform their opinion further, rather than just to give $default_raise. It seems a perfectly reasonable request to me, providing it was not said in a hostile tone. Whatever, given the situation, going 'nevermind' and leaving, rather than communicating was completely the wrong thing to do.
edit:
Also, many bosses are offended that you would ask for a raise, or have the idea that you need to be dominated or you are no good any more.
Also, it's cheaper to listen to people talk about how good they are, or just look at the number of hours they work, than to try to pay attention and assess for yourself how good they are.
Also, when people promise you the moon they are under pressure to deliver it and can be cut down when they don't get it for you. And if they say they are good, they can be shamed. A scapegoat and yes-man often has more value than someone who is really producing, because of the beholder's value system
Perhaps your boss just didn't have his eye on the ball and know about all the awesome things you did, or maybe he had a lot of direct reports and can't immediately recall your accomplishments.
Think about it from a different perspective, you joined the company, and I'm going to pay you X, for Y work. If you're still doing Y work, why do you deserve more than X?
If nothing else, it would have been good practice at talking about your achievements.
If you can't think of why you deserve a raise, maybe you don't.
I never said that I can't think of a reason I deserve a raise, I said that a manager shouldn't need to ask, because they should know, since they are, you know, your manager.
But yeah, I guess grasping at straws to be a snarky dick trumps using any logical thought whatsoever. Thanks for the contribution though?
If/When I decide to leave there is no counter offer that will get me to stay. For me it's a matter of principle. By the time it gets to the point of counter offers, they've already missed their chance to pay me what I'm worth.
Unless they are really naive they probably do indeed know this.