Comment by fatdog789 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by fatdog789 | Hacker News Reader

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Bullshit. A repellant to a certain type of guys, maybe. But the hotter a chick is, the more dates she goes out on unless she chooses to be picky.

From the article: 1. He talks to Carol and she responds in a friendly manner. He gets her phone number and a proper date next week. 2. He does not approach Carol. He can enjoy another rewarding task (like reading the last issue of Plus). 3. He talks to Carol and she proves uninterested. He will feel miserable for a week.

No guy who is actually interested in a woman will pick option 2. In fact, it's a non-option.

No guy who will "feel miserable for a week" over some random chick turning him down for a date. If he does feel miserable for a week, he's got serious emotional problems or instability issues. A few minutes, maybe. A hours, possibly. if he has a really sensitive ego.

Finally, as to the anecdotal evidence at the bottom of the article which inspired the article, I call bullshit again. Uma Thurman and Jessica Simpson were both referring to boyfriends, not dates, and discussing how their careers and financial success was scaring off men who were intimidated by the spectre of being in a relationship with a more successful woman. (I watch Extra, so sue me.)

  "No guy who is actually interested in a woman will pick option 2. 
  In fact, it's a non-option."

I'm a guy. I'm interested in women. I pick option 2 all the time.

Some of us happen to be shy and/or introverted...

You don't pick option 2 so much as it picks you.

option 2 hasn't so much as picked me as had it's tendrils wrap around my aorta.

I guess that doesn't fit very well with my notion of what an option is :-)

It doesn't seem to me like you're familiar with any reserved, risk-averse people.

No guy who is actually interested in a woman will pick option 2. In fact, it's a non-option.

Picking option 2 is a "bah, she's out of my league" decision. It may not be a smart choice, but it's a choice that a whole lot of men make.

No guy who will "feel miserable for a week" over some random chick turning him down for a date.

A lot of men have a fear of failure in this game, however irrational it may seem. Being rejected by a woman can make a man self-conscious about his own attractiveness. A typical pessimistic guy would not take it very well and will try to avoid a situation like that. This is probably why the author uses 0 as the reward for outcome 3.

Picking option 2 is a "bah, she's out of my league" decision. It may not be a smart choice, but it's a choice that a whole lot of men make.

The best explanation I've heard for this is that it's an evolutionary adaptation. If you're in a tribe of mammals with a strict social hierarchy, trying to mate with the alpha male's partner is an excellent way to get expelled from the tribe if you're lucky or killed if you're not. So we developed a survival instinct to not approach females that we see as above us socially.

This could be another evolutionary psychology just-so story, but it fits exactly with my experience. If I seriously consider approaching an attractive woman I get an immediate physical reaction very much like vertigo, which I believe is the primitive part of my brain frantically trying to signal danger. Of course this is actively harmful in our current environment, but our genes don't know that; we're adaptation executers, not fitness maximizers (see http://lesswrong.com/lw/l0/adaptationexecuters_not_fitnessma...).

"Fear of failure" oversimplifies it, I think. As an anecdotal example, the other day, I was at a rock climbing gym and saw an extremely attractive girl climbing. I didn't approach her, because

1) I was new there, unfamiliar with the social mores, and didn't want to earn an undesirable reputation

2) She was with a group of friends, any one of which she could've been involved with--and, indeed, did embrace one of the guys about an hour later

3) She was intent on what she was doing; I wasn't at my most impressive; I'd likely have a repeated chance, and a failed intial approach would negatively bias later chances

4) Likely other more or less subconscious, more or less rational reasons as well.

If a guy talks to >>1 girl per week, almost any guy will get over rejection pretty quickly. The a priori fear of failure is much worse than the actual thing.

I actually suffer a lot from misery that's woman-related, sometimes for months and years after something happens. Possibly that's because I'm fairly young, but also possibly it depends on the type of person and you aren't as affected as I am.

It seems the reward of not feeling miserable is comparable to asking her out.

I'm so averse to feeling miserable from rejection I haven't asked anyone out on a date since the 5th grade. It ended poorly. I feel miserable from just listening to their thoughts. It probably varies for different guys.

Maybe not "feel miserable for a week" but definitely "miserable and unlikely to try again for quite a while".

Asking girls out and getting rejected is like being repeatedly being punched in the face. But not asking at all is like living in a sensory deprivation tank.

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