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Comment by rbanffy | Hacker News Reader

No. I don't think the experience is that bad anyway.

Django is Free Software. You get a corpus of software developed by an incredibly competent and generous group of people for free. These people solve their own problems and kindly donate their solutions for all to use. For free.

If you have a problem that bothers you, you are free to solve it or to pay someone else to solve it for you. If it's a problem for too many people, it will, eventually, be solved by some generous person and you'll have your solution, again, for free.

If it's your problem and only your problem, nobody else has any obligation whatsoever to solve it for you. BTW, nobody has any obligation to solve any problem with Django. It's done out of either love or necessity.

We all have busy schedules. We all have families we love to spend time with. If I have to choose between spending time with my family and solving your problem, you'd better not hold your breath.

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That's kind of my point. If there's no love from the core devs to solve real problems that the community has then what are our choices?

Having to throw up kick starters for every feature is unreasonable.

Migrations were something that SO many people wanted and the core devs didn't even think to add it. It had to be merged in by a random person in the community for $30,000 and it also took 14 months assuming Django ships 1.7 in May going by their roadmap.

That is 14 months and $30,000 to get a feature into the framework while already having a tested and battle hardened implementation as a third party module.

> solve real problems that the community has

Define "real". Like I told you, it doesn't bother me.

> Migrations were something that SO many people wanted

You are right - and we had South for it and we used it a lot. Integrating South into Django's core was not a trivial effort, however, but, again, since we already had South, it was not a big issue.

> That is 14 months and $30,000 to get a feature into the framework while already having a tested and battle hardened implementation as a third party module.

IIRC, the 30K were paid to the third party who created South to build a better migration engine it into Django. You can continue to use South for as long as you want. It's just that, starting with 1.7, you'll get migrations built in and South will no longer be required.

I still fail to see why do you think everybody has to be concerned with the problems you find important. If it bothers you so much, then solve it.

edit: corrected the character of the effort

The migrations project was a re-write, not an integration with South. Common misconception, but the new migrations implementation is actually better than South's.

That's even worse. So the author of south threw out all of his work and re-wrote it from the ground up rather than the core devs just working on it?

That's disgusting...

Or maybe you got the guy who knew how everything worked re-write it to function better than it had before, versus having core devs learn exactly how it worked and then implemented it.

To go back to your original question, of is Django pay for features, I don't know enough about it. But one place you could look into is the amount of corporate support Django gets. Maybe Rails has enough corporate support + people who want to work on Rails in their free time in order to get the features, versus Django. Sometimes you need to pay people to work on open source projects and the crowdfunded thing is just more visible than the corporate employees.

What is disgusting is a lazy coward creating a throwaway account to complain about the lack of generosity of people far more capable - and generous - then themselves.

Stop hiding.

Except you could go look for yourself on Google and see this is my normal IRC name and if you wanted to read the conversation that sparked this topic since I'm pretty sure the #django IRC logs are public.

You can accuse me of down voting you but you're accusations are misplaced. I wouldn't waste my time. How about you go ask the site owner to check who down voted you.

I will bet my life that it's not associated to my IP address or this account. Go troll someone else man and lay off the insults, it makes you look like you're a child.

So, this is your first access to Hacker News?

Why should I believe it?

BTW, an SSD would be much cheaper than paying for someone else to solve your problems.

I shouldn't have to buy an SSD to develop comfortably with a dynamic language.

Even compiled languages like Go using non-trivial frameworks (Revel) reload faster than django's runserver. It's like django's runserver is still in 2007 while everyone moved on years ago.

I'm also not the only one who isn't happy with the speed because right now runserver polls for updates every second. Some core dev implemented a change so that it's push based now instead of polling every second and should be in 1.7, but this only happens if you have pyinotify.

Want the know the kicker? The ticket to do it was opened 5 YEARS AGO.

https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/9722

That's only a small gain though but it's crazy to think that it's been polling this whole time. I'm all for polling in web apps when possible but seeing a comment you didn't know even exist pop up 3 seconds after it was made is much different than expecting immediate feedback when you spend ~60 hours a week developing a web app.

I see the coward has a regular account and is capable of downvoting...

You seem to have a grudge against the world for some reason. Why are your posts so hostile?

Do you not see the bigger picture? The runserver problem is only 1 thing. People are expecting to be fed tens of thousands of dollars through kickstarter to create features that people want instead of the core django devs implementing them.

The reason why rails has an amazing development experience has nothing to do with rail's API or ruby.

It's because rails is extracted and built out of a product that some of the core devs work with 24/7 (basecamp). They add useful things like a development server that isn't garbage because they work with it on a daily basis full time.

I don't want to see Django fall over because they don't add any features that people actually want and instead force the community to beg for money on kick starter to do it.

You seem to have a misplaced sense of entitlement. I must admit I have a problem with people who have such personality issues.

You are expecting developers to adapt the amazing software they made (for free) to your needs and do all that immense effort for free. You see your problems and think they should be everyone else's top priority. Should they thank you for pointing The Way?

You have to understand the world does not revolve around you.

Django is free as in freedom. You have the freedom to modify it to your needs. Use it.

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