* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_revolution * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_spring * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_rouge
There are many more of course, too numerous to put here. Mass starvation and death is not the exclusive domain of communism for sure, but communist societies of the past sure seem to have been prone to it. The "Communist" countries today that aren't complete shit-holes (like China and Vietnam) are the ones that have moved away from strict command economies and allowed markets to form.
As for Holodomor, I was just pointing that out because we're talking about Ukraine here. Whether through malicious intent or incompetence and mismanagement, Stalin's regime was still responsible for countless needless deaths.
Furthermore, socialism is inevitable. Just look at the world today- distinctly more socialist than it was 100 years ago.
My parents have lived in both communism and capitalism and believe a mixed society is probably the best.
The leaders were driven by the ideology. Their actions were driven by a desire to achieve their vision of a communist utopia. People went along with these plans because the ideology promised them a better life. By your logic, was National Socialism not evil because the Holocaust was the fault of Hitler and his Lieutenants?
> Just look at the world today- distinctly more socialist than it was 100 years ago.
I'm not criticizing socialism, I am specifically criticizing hard-line communism as practiced in the past by the Soviet Union and in the present by nations like North Korea and Cuba. The fact that the Soviet Union collapsed and the People's Republic of China moved away from orthodox communism is an indication of how valid that ideology was.
> My parents have lived in both communism and capitalism and believe a mixed society is probably the best
And that's what we have today in most western countries. In fact, that's what we had in the west even during the Cold War. Again, not saying that any semblance of socialism is inherently bad. I'm saying that orthodox communism has, does, and will always, lead to suffering for the general population.
While you find them in every system, you find them more frequently in totalitarian ones.
> Furthermore, socialism is inevitable. Just look at the world today- distinctly more socialist than it was 100 years ago.
Yes, but less socialist than 50 years ago, which suggests it's an ebb and flow type of deal, rather than some death march toward communism.
> My parents have lived in both communism and capitalism and believe a mixed society is probably the best.
My parents have lived in both communism and capitalism and believe capitalism is best.