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I joined the wrestling team my freshman year of high school, and it did wonders. All of your practice is against real people, so when you try to do a particular move, you really know how to perform it.

The best part of it is that it is generally non-violent. The last real fight I had was the month before I started wrestling. Every other "fight" after that consisted of them throwing a punch and then me getting them into a headlock until they cooled off and backed down. No bloody noses.

I'd consider it perfect for anyone seeking real, effective methods of self defense- especially in school, where even if you fight back and end up breaking a nose you can be punished.

As a wrestler, it's great for diffusing simple high-school fights. I fondly remember someone throwing a sucker punch at me in the locker room, and I used his momentum and a Greco-Roman throw to put him hard head-first into the ground.

That said, in real life, wrestling sucks for fights, because you never know when the other guy has a knife. Weapons change everything. Run away.

Disciplines which place an emphasis on live sparring make an enormous difference. See boxing, Muay-Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the emerging amalgamation of various sparring disciplines, Mixed Martial Arts.

Absolutely agree. I would also add wrestling. Any kid who did wrestling easily had me on the ground screaming before I could get any fancy blocks, punches, or kicks out (it is always a bad idea to try to kick a good wrestler). Basically, any discipline which involves you having to physically overpower another human being will make a difference if you stick with it.

You're right, I should have included wrestling. Some of the habits wrestling instills don't work in a fight (like going to your stomach instead of your back), but overall it's an enormous advantage. The speed at which a good wrestler learns BJJ or MMA is startling.

Hint: if you're doing BJJ and you go against a wrestler (a number of guys here are former wrestlers) start on the ground. You basically will not get the take down. On the other hand, once both of you are on the ground, its a fair fight ;)

I've rolled with many wrestlers - including Division I wrestlers and those who were competitive at the state level. In my experience, their advantages are mental toughness, grappling strength and a relentless top game.

Well, yeah. I wasn't really talking about that level. I'm just an amateur :)

Aikido

Krav Maga for the +1. They teach you straight from the get go that it's about survival and nothing more. It's brutal, but the education is worth it.

You also don't learn anything other then going berserk.

That's going to work most of the time, unless someone expects it or has a gun/taser, then you're fucked.

Krav Maga is not a combat art, it's the Israeli army's psychological training for soldiers in urban warfare.

I had a friend who was in to that sort of thing. It seemed pretty dangerous. I was interested, but was concerned that being repeatedly hit in the head or put in a chokehold might cause brain damage.

I recall this one incident where my friend had a guy in a headlock and the guy lost consciousness so he couldn't tap out. When he finally let him go the other dude had a seizure there on the spot.

The same friend ended up permanently injuring his back by being slammed into the ground while attempting to perform a flying armbar on his opponent.

Being repeatedly hit in the head at full force is not good. Most sparring is done at considerably less than full strength for that very reason. I think MMA fighters take less of a beating to the head than boxers because the fight is more varied, and seemingly paradoxically, since the gloves are smaller, if a solid punch gets through, you're more likely to get knocked out. Boxers, with the bigger gloves, take more a continual beating to the head.

If you go out from a chokehold, it's either because your training partner is an asshole and didn't let go (unlikely in my experience), or you were stubborn and refused to tap (more likely). The seizing is typical when coming back from a blood choke - not good, of course, but it's what happens.

Going out in a chokehold isn't really that bad. I definitely agree that you refusing to tap happens a lot more than anything else. Note that all BJJ chokes are blood chokes, not air chokes, so they work by cutting off blood to your brain. Since this only happens for about 15 seconds or so, its pretty safe. Also note that the "seizure" is nerve stimulus response after the brain stops control -- its not a grand mal seizure in the medical sense. For the most part, BJJ is pretty safe. The thing that you have to be most careful about is tapping out when someone has the hold. As someone with an abnormally high pain tolerance, I'm always careful about tapping out a little bit quicker, because if you don't a number of the advanced techniques can quickly cause permanent damage. However, this is one of the things that you are trained in for BJJ rolling, just like Judo teaches break falling.

The striking sports are definitely more of a risk than grappling (also less useful in my opinion). Boxing is probably the most likely to cause long term trauma like hematomas.

I remember hearing that the widespread use of boxing gloves actually increased injuries and fatalities as you could punch somebody in the head without having to worry about breaking bones in your hands.

Wikipedia has some mention of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Impact_of_gloves_o...

> The seizing is typical when coming back from a blood choke - not good, of course, but it's what happens.

LOL at the casual way you say this. Not a criticism, really, it's just waaay outside my experience.

Add Hapkido in there, too. (Karate : Judo as Taekwondo : Hapkido)

With respect, if you have a black belt yet can't put up a fight I'd seriously question the competence of your teacher, both in the quality of the training and the standards by which belts are awarded.

The main teacher definitely knew how to fight (Mike Winkeljohn, look him up), but I'm definitely with you on questioning the type of training and the standards by which belts are rewarded. The problem is that a lot of karate places are not really in the business of teaching kids how to fight.

It's a lot like Boy Scouts. The parents want to see progress, and so the belts are handed out to any kid who checks off all the requirements, which mostly consist of memorization and a minimal standard of physical fitness. It's a business, and doing that works better for the real customers: the parents. It certainly works for the OP even though his kids are obviously not learning how to fight ("His Karate dojo is wonderful, and he loves doing it. It's actually a very gentle dojo..."). A lot of kids love to do it anyway. I was just disappointed that my main purpose for studying karate was mismatched. I'll also grant that there is a small element of "getting out of it what you put into it" as well.

> Karate does not teach you that

That largely depends on your teacher. Some schools teach karate as a sport, others - as a discipline or self-defense. Different people see different ways of karate.

There are many forms of karate and some of them have little to do with fighting. If you want to quickly learn to street fight take Kenpo. If you want to learn how to make your body as lethal as possible take a non sport from of Muay Thai.

Note: I took American Kenpo for a few years and liked it, but I don't think it's really the best art for the average 12 year old.

There are plenty of real karate schools, far more fake ones. The test is pretty simple- you ask the instructor if the students fight each other. If no, it is fake. Very hard to get good at something without ever doing it.

"Nobody in the streets knows that you are a black belt" - Bruce Lee