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Comment by steven2012 | Hacker News Reader

steven2012

I'm probably a 1%-er, given how much my wife and I earn. I don't give to charity.

Not because I don't believe I should, but I still don't feel like I'm at the stage where we can afford to, given how expensive life in the Bay Area is. We live well within our means (2 cheap cars, no cable tv, eat-in most days of the week, ...), but the idea of having to pay for a ridiculous mortgage to live in a safe area with good schools, pay for a nanny to take care of our kids because we work so many hours, having to save for our retirement, saving for our kids' educations scares the hell out of me, and puts a freeze on any extraneous spending of money. I feel like we are one dot-com-bust away from total financial disaster.

Once we have a more stable financial picture in the next 10 years or so, I definitely would like to donate my money, and maybe more importantly, my time, but until then, I think I will abstain from donating.

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Don't you have some monthly discretionary income? When I was making about $35/hour (and living in the Bay Area), I sometimes donated half of each of my paycheck. To be frank, sometimes I'm embarrassed by how much I make. Not that I'm not exceptionally good at what I do - I am good at what I do - I just don't know why I get paid so much while others around the world have to suffer. It is out duty, while we are alive, to reduce our own suffering and the suffering of others. And sometimes, the two are not mutually exclusive.

"I still don't feel like I'm at the stage where we can afford to" -- just... wow.

It sounds you may be lacking perspective. I highly recommend visiting the poorest places of your own city, much less the poorer countries of the world. You might be surprised at the effect it will have on you; I know it does me every time.

I don't feel I lack perspective. I'm well aware of how blessed we are relative to other people in the world or even in my immediate area. I just feel like my time to donate is later, when I'm financially more comfortable, rather than now. Is there a reason why you feel I should be donating now rather than later?

My reason would be that donating makes you feel richer. It's not about the amount but making a habit of feeling like you have at least some resources to help other people.

You say you don't donate because you don't feel rich, but maybe you don't feel rich precisely because you don't donate.

If you don't feel rich, you're probably doing all kinds of other things to sabotage your financial success that are more than canceling out the cost of a little charity here and there.

I know you're going to get (and have already gotten) flak for your response, but I appreciate your honesty. It definitely sounds like you're trying to be responsible financially and cost of living is extremely high in the Bay Area for sure (as I've experienced myself).

Like others have mentioned though, it's very easy to get in the mindset of "When I have $x, I'll be able to give". Financial security and piece of mind for your family is obviously very important, but generally, getting to a point where you can give is more about a mindset than actual numbers. If you don't feel you have enough now to give, it's unlikely like you ever will. Not everyone can have Bill Gates money :).

I recently was in a class that taught economic discipleship at my church that worked on transforming both mind and heart to be responsible financially. This means not only giving more, but also being responsible with budgeting (accountability for own finances), giving responsibly (to responsible charities), and spending happily (being grateful for one's own wealth). One "homework" we did was to start by cutting some of the excess in our life to save money. These were very simple things like cutting out a latte a week, eating in more, driving less, etc. The actual amount itself may not have been significant to start, but it keeps you very conscientious of where money leaks, and how that money could benefit others. We then researched charities to find ones doing the most impactful work and gave some of that money we saved. We also gave a larger contribution over a longer term by designating different percentages of our salaries/bonuses as not our own, but for others.

These little steps help make giving and being aware of the need elsewhere in the world a daily part of your life rather than something that seems like a distant dream or something you do before the end of the tax year. I am by no means some giving expert, but I've been working on these very things myself with my family and hope it can help make a dent on the poverty and inequities in the world. Gates's letter gives us great hope and motivation that our efforts today and not tomorrow can and will have enormous implications for the well-being of the world's population.

I can relate to your point about income being relative to circumstances.

I'm lucky to have a very good salary, at least for a young guy in one of his first jobs, who doesn't have many financial obligations.

Until about a month ago, I felt very comfortable with my finances and, on paper, would definitely be able to donate to nonprofits. But I recently had a medical emergency that cost thousands (even with good insurance).

Things will work out fine, but the situation has completely reshaped my financial situation and ability to give.

Yes, I lived through the dot-com bust where I honestly thought my livelihood was disappearing. It was eye-opening and probably the basis of my beliefs on requiring absolute financial stability. Friends of mine were out of work for 2 years, and had to move several times until they found a permanent work in Texas and SoCal.

As well, the 2009 financial crisis had me scared as well, but I was a lot more financially prepared for that.

Now that we have kids, the equation changed once again, and my requirements for financial stability have changed even further.

> Once we have a more stable financial picture in the next 10 years or so

Dream on. You'll never donate. How pathetic. Who do you expect is able to give except Gates and Soros?

Sounds like you're giving yourself a choice between donating nothing and donating a substantial amount. Why not donate a little here and there? I'm just a poor grad student, but my wife and I fast for two meals each month and donate what we would have spent on food for those meals (usually estimated as a couple times more than we would actually spend on the food) to charity. Is this a huge amount of money? Not from us individually, but if everyone did this it would be a considerable amount (I get $30 billion per year for the U.S. alone). Just because you can't make a huge difference individually doesn't mean you can't be part of something meaningful.

I didn't think about it that way, but now that you sum it up, I think this is relatively accurate.

Like I said, I'm not against donating money whatsoever, and I definitely have plans to donate in the future. Besides donating more of my income later on, some of my more ambitious plans are to take on foster children, and give them access to the good schools in my area once my children have grown a bit older.

Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future?

> Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future?

Yeah. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It's good to have plans for big charitable actions, but small actions can make a difference too. Even if you give only 100$ or 50$ per year (and 100$ is close to a rounding error on your yearly income), it can still go a long way for some charities. Charities in general need money all the time, and their work is easier if they can rely on a steady flow rather than big sporadic gifts (which require them to invest part of the money they get into fundraising - that's also why small monthly donations are better).

It's also super easy to help, you just need to donate a small amount of cash. You don't have to invest any of your time or to think and plan deeply about it. The advantage of small donations over large donations is that you don't have the same emotional attachment to how well spent your donation is gonna be. (Just investigate briefly which organizations support causes which you care about and look into how well-managed their funds are - usually most of these organizations are pretty transparent, and consistently managed over the years. So you can pick a few favorites and give to them blindly afterwards.)

One big advantage of numerous small donations is also that you can contribute to many causes you are attached to without having to "choose one". As far as I'm concerned, I give to food banks, emergency relief organizations, human & digital rights associations, and environmental protection associations, because I find all these causes to be important.

To build habits?

My bank has free bill pay, so my wife and I have an automatic check sent out every month to a local all-volunteer charity that does very worthwhile work. We never see that money and we budget around the income we have left over. Whenever I peek at my bank statements and see those debits, I'm reminded of what we're doing.

Even a small amount, say $50/month, is a great start. This also forces you to find a worthwhile cause now, and to attach yourself to and actively re-evaluate that cause on an ongoing basis. It becomes a part of your life instead of your future.

All that said, thanks for the honest discussion. This stuff is important.

Agreed, I give occasionally when I am feeling generous and regularly to certain charities. But I also demand a certain value from the charities I donate to, I chastise any charity that sends me paper mailings because they are wasting my money and not heeding my wishes.

As to the OP's posting about waiting vs donating currently. Remember there is no time like the present and perhaps it needs to be thought of like loosing weight, you can always put it off but a little of what is good for you each day is sustaining.

Plus, loosing a small percentage of your income probably won't make you any richer, but it might make someone else's life much better. A little money can save someone's life, can the same be said for what is 'waiting' in your pocket?

Is your combined family income over 445k? That's how much the 1% make (2013). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/d...

$100,000 (net) household income would get you comfortably into the World 1%:

http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i

Analyzing income distribution is a lot less telling to the kind of persistent inequalities that exist in our society than wealth distribution. See http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-t... -- to be in the top 1% of wealth in the US you need to be worth around $8.4 million.

Not to get into specifics, but like I said, I'm probably a 1%-er.

This doesn't seem logical to me, sorry.

> pay for a nanny

Are you serious, or are you joking?

You are basically a 1% and you can't even give anything to charity.

It's your choice like all 1% but a least own the fact you are selfish.

Have you considered moving to Europe? Better schools (AFAIK), mostly, better work-life balance, safer (less guns), better social security (e.g. pension).

How about working to change America? In theory, it is a democracy, so if what you say is true, people should be able to change it.

50 million on food stamps in "the richest country", while "poorer" countries fare much better - you should have some voters here. The only problem - you need gazillions to make it to the TV screens so that you end up being electable. There goes your democracy.

I don’t think it solves the problem. From what I’ve seen so far, for an engineer job paid $100k/year in the US, you’ll get only €40k/year in France (~$50k/year), and some things are more expensive.

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