Hacker News Reader

Comment by dragonwriter | Hacker News Reader

> Personally, I have no problems with Windows 8, I even prefer it to 7 (or Android) on touch enabled devices.

Even on non-touch devices, the big problems I have with Win 8/8.1 are solved by readily available third party software that gives you back a Win 7 style task bar / Start Menu (and, actually, I prefer and use this on my touchscreen laptop, as well.) AFAICT, Win 8 is an all-around improvement except for basically one highly-visible but trivially correctable UI decision for keyboard-centric devices.

View on HN

Care to list some examples of such software?

I don't think it's acceptable that I have to use third-party software (and most of it, last time I looked, was either additional cost or sketchy not-sure-if-free-or-spyware variety) just to make the thing usable.

> Care to list some examples of such software?

The one I use is Classic Shell [1]. The current version is free (gratis) but not Free/Open Source. There is an earlier Open Source version.

> I don't think it's acceptable that I have to use third-party software (and most of it, last time I looked, was either additional cost or sketchy not-sure-if-free-or-spyware variety) just to make the thing usable.

IMO, its quite usable as-is, though I like the UI less for desktop/laptop use than the Win 7 UI because of the lack of the Start Menu, so I prefer to use the available third-party software to fix that; with that third-party software, I find it better than Win 7 entirely.

[1] http://www.classicshell.net/

The free one is Classic Start Menu, and the very inexpensive one ($5) is Start8.

I don't think that installing 3rd party software to fix core UI issues is trivial. I think that something like that would never occur to the vast majority of Windows users.

> I don't think that installing 3rd party software to fix core UI issues is trivial.

I meant trivial for me. I agree that its not trivial in the market.

Fair enough.

I don't have Win8 but I have seen people use it. How is the UI different for keyboards? Don't you still just tap the "Windows" button and then type what you want?

> I don't have Win8 but I have seen people use it. How is the UI different for keyboards?

Its not different from Win 7 for people who never take their hands off the keyboard.

Its different for people who use pointing devices, though, since the Start Menu (not the "Start Button", which Win 8.1 restored and Win 8 had a close equivalent) is replaced with the touch optimized Start Screen which takes a lot more pointing device movement to get to options than the old Start Menu.

That's how I use it. If anything I click on a button that filters files, programs, or system settings.

Yes. Pressing windows and typing starts searching for a program.

People are upset that they have to tap the "Windows" button instead of clicking the start menu button. Nevermind that Microsoft added the start button back in 8.1

IMO it's an almost absurdly trivial issue contrasted against holistic moderate improvements across the rest of the OS. Maybe a learning case-study on how narrow, particular elements of user experience & perception can turn against you...

There was always a Start button in Win8.0, which was demonstrated during the initial welcome screens. Hold your mouse in the upper-right corner to open the Charms menu, then click the start button there. (Edited for clarity)

Now I can't remember if the lower-left-corner-hover was present in Win8.0. I know there was always the button in the system menu (right edge swipe).

(I'm pretty sure the link you provide has been updated for Win8.1)

Here's a better link from late 2012 http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57534694-285/how-to-retu... Seems it was always there.

>> AFAICT, Win 8 is an all-around improvement except for basically one highly-visible but trivially correctable UI decision for keyboard-centric devices.

Requiring a non-supported hack to get around a central design decision doesn't work for the vast majority of users who expect it to just work. This highly visible UI decision is the whole point behind windows 8 and is central to the way Microsoft wants you to interact with the OS. If you aren't using the metro/modern apps there is no point in windows 8.

The 'improvements' are very modest over windows 8 and none of them have anything to do with the way the vast majority of users expect to be able to use the desktop. You still need to get into windows 8 stuff to perform basic tasks like changing settings or shutting down the computer(! yes, i am aware of other ways to do it but the average user is stuck). I still find the magic corner stuff like the charms bar in windows 8 to be totally jarring and strange and I am very technically proficient.

Corporate are not too keen on installing third party fixes.

We have couple of XP machines that would run perfectly well for another 5 years if we upgrade them to SSDs. The thing is, Windows 7 costs twice as much as 8. Odd strategy MS.

> Corporate are not too keen on installing third party fixes.

On the other hand, corporate is often keen on throwing more money at Microsoft when better, less-expensive options -- whether OS, application, or anything else -- are available, so insofar as the UI issue is an issue for corporate users, it could probably be fixed by Microsoft releasing an $50/seat, centrally-deployable Windows 8 Corporate Interface Pack that restored the Start Menu on Windows 8 machines.

Windows 8.X Pro licenses generally include Windows 7 downgrade rights. Can you just buy Windows 8.1 Pro?

I think it only applies to volume licensing but I am not 100% sure on that.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com