Comment by mgbmtl | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mgbmtl | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

From what I understand so far, the model they encourage is:

- register a legal entity (coop, non-proft, corp, whatever)

- register with IANA to get an ipv4 and ipv6 block

- find an ISP who can do the BGP announcements for you (DSL resellers usually support it, even if for a residential connection)

- use something like Quagga for routing, no need for big expensive routers

- connect with whatever premises you want your DYI-ISP to cover: ex: specific building, such as a student dorm, specific residential district with a mesh wifi, cat5 flying all over the place, install your own fiber (it's not that complicated!), etc.

Browsing the FFDN database, a lot of their members are small orgs with 50-100 users. With time, if you encourage a community legal model (coop or non-profit), people will develop more expertise and step up to manage and expand your network.

PS: I'm part of a Montreal mesh community called "Réseau libre" (http://www.reseaulibre.ca). We don't provide Internet, but we build the underlying infrastructure. It's a lot of fun and a great way to learn crazy networking stuff on a shoe-string budget.

> register with IANA to get an ipv4 and ipv6 block

Actually one has to register as a Local Internet Registry with the local monopoly RIR, such as ARIN or RIPE. Only they can request blocks from IANA, which they then allocate to LIRs in exchange for non-trivial membership fees.

Fees in the order of 3,000EUR to join and not much less on a recurring annual basis:

http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-mem...

Unfortunately since the ITU proposal for a non-geographic RIR faded some years ago there is no competition in this space, as the existing RIRs refuse to service cross-geography requests.

On top of it, the last I read, getting IP blocks from a RIR (even a decently supplied one like ARIN) is rather difficult as the IPv4 space continually dwindles. Also read that ARIN won't give you IPv6 space unless you first have assigned v4 space. Not sure if that's still true. I only read and research this stuff, haven't actually dealt with these entities myself. For a just starting out ISP, I think you'd be forced to lease IP's from your transit provider.

> Also read that ARIN won't give you IPv6 space unless you first have assigned v4 space.

You misread an "or" as an "and".

For end-users: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_assign.h...

"Meet one of the following requirements"

one of, not all of.

For ISPs/LIRs: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_alloc.ht...

Each criteria is followed by "or"

OK, I was referencing some older info: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2339/arin-stupid-policies

If I interpret that post correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because it sure reads like it was written by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing and has an axe to grind), they submitted a request for both IPv4 space and IPv6 space at the same time, and ARIN wanted to go through the approval process for IPv4 first. This is understandable and not surprising.

At the end of the post it even says "Nothing stopping us from paying 1250 a year for our own IPv6 space though.".

This is an angry, confused individual upset about costs who decided to go rant semi-coherently on a forum full of people I wouldn't trust to administer a network anyway. It is not a reliable source of information.

Any notion that you require an IPv4 allocation to get an IPv6 allocation is wrong, was wrong in April 2012 when that post was written, and as far as I know, has always been wrong. You have never required an IPv4 assignment to get an IPv6 assignment, such a policy would be absurd and utterly counter-productive.

This is the ARIN policy document in place in April 2012: https://www.arin.net/policy/archive/nrpm_20120210.pdf

I can find no requirement that new IPv6 allocations require an IPv4 allocation. See sections 6.5.2.2 and 6.5.8.1, which correspond to the pages I linked to earlier.

The author probably misunderstood because having an IPv4 allocation makes the IPv6 allocation faster, almost automatic, since you have already proven that you need IPs and the RIR will want to encourage IPv6 adoption. (but having ipv4 is by no means mandatory)

OK, that all makes sense. I was clearly mistaken on that part then, thanks for the info.

Wow, that's crazy.. Afaik, last time I checked, it's cheaper when dealing with ARIN? i.e. for small orgs, 500$/year + fee per block?

(but indeed, I should have written "register with an RIR, such as ARIN/RIPE", instead of IANA.)

Yeah, ARIN is $500/yr for ISPs using a /22 or smaller of IPv4 space (i.e. 1022 addresses), $1000 for up to a /20 (4094 addresses): https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html

RIPE is a lot pricier for small members because it isn't tiered. Everyone pays €3800 the first year and then €1800/year thereafter: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-mem...

These prices are for becoming a Local Internet Registry (LIR). You don't need this to provide access with your own adress blocks, AS and stuff.

It's not exactly this. The "find an ISP who can do the BGP annoucements for you" is not accurate. We encourage each org to announce herself their ranges, when possible.

"an ISP who can do the BGP announcements for you"

This might be a list worth compiling: ISP's that will announce IPv4 address blocks for residential customers.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com