Hacker News Reader

Comment by beatpanda | Hacker News Reader

Which is really a shame, because RapGenius is a better lyrics site than all the rest by leaps and bounds. Google is acting like a cartel here and it's absolutely ridiculous. I hope they can beat this thing.

View on HN

RapGenius doesn't need to 'beat this thing'. They need to suck it up and deal with the punishment for getting caught cheating. Google has very clear guidelines. RapGenius decided to go blackhat SEO anyway (because 'everyone else does it'). They got caught (blatantly). And now they're dealing with the penalty.

If you don't want to have a 6 month penalty on Google, don't cheat.

Rapgenius needs to find some way to recover from this if they are to survive. What are you saying they don't need to do?

I do think that RapGenius' punishment is pretty harsh, but I don't think Google's behavior is "absolutely ridiculous". RapGenius did some shady stuff and they should be penalized for it so that this stuff doesn't pervade the web. I also don't think Google is acting like a cartel, in that they aren't extorting RapGenius or killing family members. But maybe Google should've laid off the crusade after a week or so.

I mostly agree with you. However, I think the parent comment was referring to the economic sense of "cartel"[1].

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

I haven't that read much about cartels in a long time but Google's behaviour here doesn't seem to fit that of a cartel based on a quick reading of the wikipedia page you provided.

Google penalized BMW, arguably one of the best automobile manufacturers in the world. Very little outrage over that.

Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're above the rules. I RapGenius was an AWFUL lyric site there would be zero sympathy from anyone over their SEO tactics.

I don't argue the merits, but the BMW case is obviously different (BMW core business, dependency on Google results, etc.), hence the disproportionate reaction.

Google is a corporation. If you want to do business with them, you follow their rules, or face the consequences. RG didn't follow those rules.

How is this ridiculous?

My feeling is that Google is acting like a monopoly. It's wrong that a private company is able to exert this much power over others, even if the others are being shady.

That's only the case because this company has built its model with Google as a primary player.

I understand the facts of the situation--a rap lyrics website HAS to build around Google to achieve optimal success. But if you aren't willing to give away that much control, build a less-successful version or just find another business.

This certainly points out one interesting thing... each and every content producer in the world has a vested stake in promoting other, alternative search engines. No one should put all of their eggs in one basket.

If you're a content producer, you should absolutely be looking for ways to promote other search engines (and other traffic sources) as a hedge against getting screwed by a change at $DOMINANT_PLAYER.

No, this company has built its model with search engine results as a primary player.

Google just happens to be the monopolist (and, furthermore, the cartel) in search.

I disagree.

That said, the landscape was already formed when they made that decision, so I imagine it was an informed one and doesn't change the meat of my comment.

They're using this as a punitive measure to prevent SEO abuse from happening in the future. I don't see much of a problem with it. Google is doing everyone a favor here - including helping out other search engines.

Users who care enough can just go directly to the site.

google already took equal measures with other companies, pretty public all of them. this story is making a lot of noise on the interwebs because its a known startup with well known investors. had it been a random blog no one would be talking about this.

google's action is only consistent with what it has done in the past with others.

I greatly prefer AZLyrics - they give me the lyrics on a page with just the lyrics, that's all I want nearly 100% of the time.

It's not even a contest: http://i.imgur.com/H1QixcN.png

That's because you have AdBlock running. This is what I got: http://i.imgur.com/R0wOh3R.png

Oh, there was also a big pop up page: http://www.azlyrics.com/eyeblaster/addineyeV2.html http://i.imgur.com/RwiGpdq.png

This. Sometimes I feel the ppl claiming rg'S results are better aren't actually even looking for lyrics. They're just comparing the brand name, ui experience, startup culture, tech etc

Don't forget that rap genius didn't / doesn't want to just be a lyrics site, they also do the whole "what do these lyrics mean" deal. I'd have no idea what 2 Chainz was going on about half the time were it not for RG.

You'd have no idea what 2 chainz was saying, or the meaning of what he is saying?

Which begs the question: if you don't know what 2 chainz is going on about half the time why do you listen to him?

If you treat the voice as another instrument it can be enjoyable without making sense.

It was an example. However, he uses a lot of slang (throwing 'n into the middle of words).

Don't even get me started on MF Doom. Love that guy, no idea what he's talking about. http://rapgenius.com/Danger-doom-sofa-king-lyrics

Sometimes music transcends language - see opera & theatre, or even just gangnam style.

Then people should stop claiming that RG is the best "lyrics" site. Lyrics are simply lyrics and RG does no better than AZlyrics in that regard. They can claim they're the best annotations or song meanings site instead.

This is perhaps further argument to use azlyrics.

> Don't forget that rap genius didn't / doesn't want to just be a lyrics site, they also do the whole "what do these lyrics mean" deal.

Do we really want to know the true meaning behind Dr. Dre's masterpiece? Is it so important that it needs $15 million dollars? Seems to me the wheels were being reinvented and being sold as square.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drdre/bitchesaintshit.html

    Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks
    Lick on these nuts and suck the dick
    Get the fuck out after you're done
    And I hope in my ride to make a quick run...

Well yeah you don't need meanings for some songs that pretty literal like that, but if you listen to say some of Lupe Fiasco's top songs where he has a metaphor referencing another metaphor every line then those meanings can be pretty helpful to decipher what he means.

And I hope in my ride to make a quick run...

Too bad you didn't use rap genius. The above line doesn't make sense. Rap genius has something different, and probably gets it right:

    And I hops in my ride to make a quick run...

I quite like Spotify + musixmatch: http://i.imgur.com/S4rn5ug.jpg?1

The only shameful thing about it, is that it doesn't happen more often. It took some major tech articles which showed the way RapGenius gamed the system, in order for Google to man up and step in.

Is it though? Though I may be making an assumption that a substantial amount of traffic is retention, if people aren't coming back does that mean that RapGenius really didn't offer that much over other lyrics sites?

If you were Google, knowing that someone is gaming the system, what would you have done differently?

Google is acting in their best interest which is to see that they are the consumer's sole choice when it comes to search. It makes sense that they would try and make an example to send the message that they are willing to go to great lengths (such as taking out businesses that depend on their traffic source) to those that don't play by the rules.

Azlyrics is the best imho, no heavy javascript, no annotations, just simple lyrics you can copy paste in to your blog or facebook.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com