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Comment by ztrerwtr56 | Hacker News Reader

He crossed a red light, that seems fair to me( Europe has similar "prices" ). A car doing that would get at least 2x times that plus points depending on the country.

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No, he was crossing with the green light, but started after the pedestrian signal started flashing red. Provided he still got through on the green, I don't think this should even be illegal!

The fine for a car going through a red light is only ~$500 in California.

Flashing don't walk is there to signal new pedestrians to not start walking and let the existing ones to finish the crossing.

http://www.walkinginfo.org/faqs/answer.cfm?id=16

I was recently in downtown LA for a convention and there was at least one pedestrian signal that had a white walk signal that showed for 1-2 seconds. If you had your head turned to the side while waiting for the walk signal, you would likely miss it before getting the red flashing "don't walk." LA is the least friendly walking city I've ever seen.

There is often a countdown timer as well, and the article implies that was so in this case. Since the timer has to be set to accommodate the slowest pedestrians, the majority of walkers will in fact be able to safely cross even when commencing after the flashing/countdown has started. A reasonable adult can certainly gauge whether the remaining time is sufficient to complete the crossing.

Note that for autos, the equivalent is the yellow lamp in a stoplight and in that case the rule is that the vehicle must have entered the intersection before the lamp turns red. So LA seems to have standards that are paradoxically more stringent for pedestrians.

Like others have already pointed out, the light was green and it simply indicated that you shouldn't start crossing because there is a countdown going. The countdown helps you see if you can make it. If there are 2 seconds left and you need to cross 4 lanes, you are not making it. If there are 30 seconds left and you need to cross 2 lanes, and you can walk at a brisk pace, doesn't sound that unsafe to me...

That said, the reason they want to crack down on that is they are treating these as gaps for cars to turn (mostly right), instead of heaving either a separate arrow for turning or changing the pedestrian light behavior to allow for a non-flashing red. Basically, instead of spending money to promote public health, they are "taxing" the public through citations.

There are similar examples of these tactics with cars as well. Remember, LA has a serious budget problem: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/18/local/la-me-ln-posit...

The positive news from that article is that they are "only" expecting to be lose "between $153 million and $242 million"...

He was ticketed for starting during the flashing "Don't Walk" signal. That seems more like a yellow light to me. In other words, there's still plenty of time to cross if you're a fast walker. Don't walk too fast though, you might get a speeding ticket.

Flashing green light for cars means stop if you are safely able to( again laws in Europe ).

Not sure for pedestrians but by logic this applies to them as well. Logically a flashing don't walk signal to someone who hasn't started walking over the crossing means Stop. What else could it mean?? Run over the road or cross as fast as possible. Definitely not as that would increase accident probability.

http://www.walkinginfo.org/faqs/answer.cfm?id=16

When pedestrians have accidents they get a bit flustered and apologise. When cars have accidents people die.

It's not that unreasonable to have a different law for cars than for pedestrians.

When pedestrians have accidents they get a bit flustered and apologise.

Ask yourself with what object do fast late crossing pedestrians have the most problems with? ( hint: it's heavy )

Flashing reds are based entirely off of how long it takes an "average" person to cross. As a relatively tall young adult, I walk much faster than the "average," so I can frequently make it across by walking even if it's been flashing red for a few seconds. Furthermore, the "Don't Walk" sign becoming solid is timed to correspond to the yellow lights appearing for the parallel traffic, so the opposing traffic won't start moving for a few seconds after the "Don't Walk" signs appear.

(Disclaimer: This is based on Raleigh, NC's traffic lights. I don't know what level this is standardized at.)

Unfortunately observing lights will not always provide the correct rules, it's easier to read the rulebook.

http://peds.org/resources/pedestrian_right_of_way/

Start reading at: Pedestrian control signals

Also:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/secti...

http://www.durham.ca/print.asp?nr=/departments/works/roads/t...

There's often a countdown timer as mentioned in the article. You know exactly how much time you have until it's a solid "Don't Walk". Usually, I will pass several people already in the crosswalk at my normal walking speed.

Europe doesn't have a concept of jay walking so I don't know where you get the idea we have similar prices. Oh, wait, did you mean a specific country in Europe that all have different laws? Certainly in the UK there is no concept of jay walking and the whole thing seems like a ludicrous idea.

There isn't any fines like that in other European countries either, so what you're basing your views on I don't know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking#Europe

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