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Comment by rogerbinns | Hacker News Reader

It sounds nice to blame the NSA, but Brazil was unlikely to buy the Boeing jets anyway. Richard Aboulafia wrote about this, how the Brazilian Air Force budget changes with economic times, their needs and lack of prior history with the more complex (and expensive) jets:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardaboulafia/2013/12/19/braz...

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I actually read that Boeing was in the lead for winning this contract before, but I don't remember the source.

My perception from reading the Brazilian newspapers about this topic since it surfaced: we wanted the advanced Rafale but couldn't pay, Gripen wasn't perfect but it was a bargain so.. Boeing was in the lead because it was advanced and the price wasn't too bad (transferring technology would be good and was still being negotiated).... and then the NSA thing happened. Next thing we heard was our government decided to go with the Gripen.

I think the conspiracy theories will go on for a while but in the end the NSA scandal really changed the final outcome.

Personally, I think Brazil did a good thing choosing the Gripen. We don't have a history of participating actively in wars (besides, we usually send medical staff instead). Our main concern is the borders and people smuggling drugs.. Gripen, F-35, Rafale.. any of those would serve the purpose very well. It's not like Brazil is planning to use the jets for anything huge like going to war... unlike the US.

Yes, anything at all would have worked since those planes are only meant to keep neighboring countries and drug smugglers minimally in check, so the choice was 100% political. It is pretty clear though that the government was going to award the contract to Boeing for political reasons, which was going to align nicely with the state visit to the US.

Then the NSA thing happened, the state visit didn't happen and some people in Sweden will forever thank the US government, since keeping logs of Brazilians chatting about TV celebrities and football was somehow worth losing 4.5 billion dollars to them.

I remember this but I don't think that the F/A 18 was ever a serious contender. However:

The government may have 'leaked' to some in the media that the deal was going to be for F/A 18s purely as a negotiating tactic with their preferred suppliers.

At some stage Boeing may have said the deal was as good as done. This would have enabled them to impress other buyers and their own shareholders.

Ultimately though, the SAAB plane was a better deal, easier to maintain, with technology transfer and perfectly suited to the needs of Brazil. Whereas the F/A 18 was 'better at dogfights' (which haven't happened since the 1960's) and the French bid was expensive.

The deal is not actually a bad one for USA Inc. as the avionics on the SAAB are mostly American.

>The deal is not actually a bad one for USA Inc. as the avionics on the SAAB are mostly American.

For this jet, only the engine are from USA

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2013/12/1388826-saab-quer...

Makes me wonder why the US is so cavalier about selling top end warplanes to weird foreign countries like Saudi Arabia. Perhaps it's because they can't stand up to unmanned aircraft.

Global Issues has an interesting article with some good linked resources on how much money is spent and by whom.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big...

They were by some accounts, but others (in the Air Force?) were in favor of the less technologically complex Saab.

IIRC, the previous Brazilian president (Lula da Silva) wanted/advocated for the Rafale, so as to strengthen relations with France / Sarkozy.

After Lula left, the competition become more about cheapness and transfer of technology.

The intention was to announce the win for Boeing at the state visit that was cancelled.

The only thing the gripen has going for it is price. The F/A-18 is a far superior aircraft and the only hold up was the technology transfer that finally met Brazil's concerns.

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