disclaimer: I have only been to SF like once and I don't really know what is going on there.
disclaimer: I have only been to SF like once and I don't really know what is going on there.
Why can't you try to get something nice for the "going rate"? And how does money not enable you to make just about any place nice? Use any remaing lack of niceness to fuel your lobbying for affordable housing being built. Not that I want to pick on you, but:
Of course it's extremely easy to say, the heck with it. I'm just going to adapt myself to the structures of power and authority and do the best I can within them. Sure, you can do that. But that's not acting like a decent person. You can walk down the street and be hungry. You see a kid eating an ice cream cone and you notice there's no cop around and you can take the ice cream cone from him because you're bigger and walk away. You can do that. Probably there are people who do. We call them "pathological." On the other hand, if they do it within existing social structures we call them "normal." But it's just as pathological. It's just the pathology of the general society.
-- Noam Chomsky
Just because people are poor, i.e. defenseless, doesn't mean others should be able to have their home automatically. You might as well say "when I ride on a bus that is very full with mostly strong people, I have to pull an old lady from her seat, so I can sit somewhere nice". No, you don't have to. Apart from dying and involuntary muscle reflexes there is nothing anyone has to do.
It seemed like the point of the article was like "Look, not all us SF techies are assholes because we don't say asshole things" and my point was more that it's the economic consequences of your lifestyle that have the biggest impact on the city's preexisting long-term residents.
I'm not trying to "you have to do that, yesterday, or you're a bad person and I'm not".. I'm mostly asking, can we consider if it would make for a nicer world to live in if everybody did that? If that was "the thing to do", instead of "fuck you got mine" being the norm?
I think where people live is kinda integral and important to their whole quality of life. Like, a human right. So I would argue that "being kicked out" is worse than not having found a super nice place and instead just an okay one.
If people with money wanted to move somewhere in droves, and couldn't, because they refuse to take part in raising rent for others, how long would it take for new stuff to get build? The poor have no lobby, and if they don't even have solidarity, they are fucked.
In all fairness, if he's buying a home, someone else is selling it. I don't see anywhere he suggests that he's nefariously evicting people from their homes so that he can reside within them and laugh maniacally.
In short, he's buying empty homes, or homes that the owners are moving out of. He's not displacing anybody in doing so.
If more affluent people outright refused to pay exorbitant rents were jacked up in expectation of their arrival, what do you think would happen? Would rents drop back to the level that was perfectly profitable "yesterday", or would the owners just let them sit empty to spite everybody?
One can still live in a really big house/apartment, you know, I'm talking about high rents for small/normal ones in areas that suddenly became hip, obviously - and where new housing is needed, displacement is hardly a solution.
I don't necessarily agree that there's a "bad guy" at all, as I believe the market will eventually correct for this, but if there is a bad guy, it isn't the buyers paying above fair market wages for a place to live, it's the landowners evicting (presumably) perfectly good tenants to capitalize on those above-market rates.
Either way, if people truly can't afford to live and work in San Francisco, then they won't, and businesses that need to hire for positions will necessarily increase wages to compensate. If the disparity is as bad as "Eviction Free SF" makes it out to be, then Googlers won't have any complaints about paying $30 for a hamburger to justify the necessary increase in employee wages.
Also, the market adopts to money, not people. Only if people spend to reflect their peopledom, it indirectly does.
As near as I understand it, getting something for the 'going rate' is impossible. Homes are selling for 80% above asking on the same day they hit the market. I personally know of someone who found a home through a friend that had literally not hit the market yet, placed an offer in the hour that it did hit the market, for something crazy like 40% above asking, and was told, on the same day, that his offer had been bested.
The market may be acting irrationally, but if one wants rational things (e.g., a place to live without dying) and money is less an issue than personal security, what exactly are they to do? Sure, placing fair market offers might feel good, but if one were to do that, they would not have a place to live. If someone could do that, then there wouldn't be a problem. I can't see how pretending the problem doesn't exist is going to change anything.
Convincing nearly everybody to artificially deflate the market simply won't work, no matter how many conscientious people are involved, because it literally only takes one moneyed asshole to arbitrage the system into exactly how it is now, except now we've got one developer with all the money instead of many homeowners with parts of the money... but either way, the net result is the same, property prices are higher.
I agree that coerced exodus isn't pretty, but as I understand it, real estate in Oakland is downright cheap by comparison, and it's a very short commute away (though I've never done the bridge in traffic).
As for your other example, picking an unhip district and moving there is just more of the same problem. If everybody did that, there'd just be even more displacement from even more places. I don't know of any ungentrified areas in San Francisco, but while you might be able to find a place in a Tenderloin-esque sort of place for cheap, any attempts at making it nice also makes it appealing to others, and the cycle repeats.
The core of the problem is that supply is artificially constrained, and demand is high. This leads to the expected raise in price for the good demanded, and is the basic tenet of economy that's been taught for almost 100 years. It's not a law, but markets, rational or irrational, tend to follow its prescriptions, and in this case, the markets are acting rationally. The easy solution is to unconstrain supply, which requires petitioning the San Francisco (and possibly surrounding) legislatures to change lessen building restrictions, not hating on Google.
Rent control is possibly an option as well, which San Francisco already has, but it isn't apparently working. I don't know if this is because the Ellis act is being exploited or because rent control is generally exploitative to property owners, or some other combination of factors that I'm not aware of.
Editing to clarify a point -- I'm not asserting that rent control is exploitative. I've seen compelling arguments for and against them, but I don't have any domain-specific knowledge or information above and beyond what I've read on the internet -- just stating that as a possibility.
You pick a random web dev forum, and I post there suggesting my business plan of low maintainence (for me), super cheap websites to get a start with freelancing or even disrupt it. People will say I shouldn't undercut market rates. And then I will say what the poster said, "I am a nice guy, and I try to help others on stack overflow, but if I want a nice career, I have to underbid. Sorry to everyone else."
You hold the stopwatch and see how long it takes for me to get flamed to hell and back. [the fact that pricing low doesn't really lead to a "nice career" is besides the point btw, you get the idea anyway]
You may be surprised how much of what does get posted here is full of bias (confirmation bias, selection, survival, small sample sizes, etc). We're human, it's normal. I've seen some posts about YC competitors get flagged off the front page while other YC-related firms tend to get more airtime, so-to-speak. Is it intentional or just a reflection of the community? I don't know, but I do know you can't take it personally.
Thank you for contributing and helping round out this complicated discussion.
The rule of thumb for buying a home is three times income, which means you can realistically only afford a $225K home. However, the US national average seems to be closer to five times income, so if we allow you that, you still can realistically only afford a $375K home. I've never tried buying a house in San Francisco, but by all accounts, you're not even close to being in the market, let alone bidding the prices up.
I also wonder how you would not notice food prices triple with that kind of income, but perhaps you grow everything you consume and thus would not feel the fluctuations the same?
With that said, one thing I notice regularly is that people seem to grossly overestimate how much other people make, so perhaps you actually are closer to the top 1% than you realize?
But I think his sentiment was more that he would bid up home prices if had the money, even as a relatively 'normal-income' individual and that most higher paid individuals spend only 5-10% of their income on necessary non-housing items.
The parent was specific about a top 15% income on the national scale. However, for interest's sake, if you want to talk about local incomes, $75K puts you in the top 3% in the rural area I come from. I should hope you'd be able to buy a house and still have some money left over being such a high earner, relatively speaking.
In my experience, incomes do not migrate well though. If you're making $75K in a rural area, you're probably not going to make $500K, or whatever top 3% is in the cities you mention, just by moving. More realistically, you might move up to $100K or so to account for some rise in cost of living, but not much more. Generally speaking, of course. There are always outliers.