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Comment by United857 | Hacker News Reader

We teach writing as a required subject in schools, without the expectation that everyone is going to be a professional writer.

We teach science without the expectation that everyone is going to be a scientist.

We teach physical education without the expectation that everyone is going to be a professional athlete.

These are all good life skills to have even if you don't learn enough to make it your career. So it should be the same with programming.

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We should also be teaching how to change a tire, how to cook basic nutritious meals, personal finance, etc..

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

I hate that quote. It starts fine, but then reaches a stupid conclusion. I wonder how much worse our life would have been without centuries of specialization: in science, in education, in business...

> I hate that quote. It starts fine, but then reaches a stupid conclusion.

The thing at the end is the premise that the rest comes from, not the conclusion it reaches.

I still find value within in. Sorry! Specialization is important for society collectively, diversity is important for the individual. Balance is key.

I don't want to die gallantly though, just satisfied with whatever I've accomplished and left behind.

I can certainly agree with that. "Specialization is for insects" is needlessly insulting, though...

But true. How many jobs will you have during your lifetime? Will you only use one skill throughout all of them, or even just one?

Specialization isn't just for insects. Its for robotics and software. Anything that can't learn and evolve.

Isn't it a quote from a character in a storey? It may have been intended to be gruff or insulting, depending.

You don't teach kids how to cook or manage their finances?

And people wonder why you are so obese and in debt.

Depends on who the "you" here is. Our schools do a mediocre job of teaching those things (especially finances), many families do a great job of it, and many families do a poor job of it.

> how to cook basic nutritious meals, personal finance, etc..

This is already being taught (atleast here in Norway.)

Unfortunately, in the US, it isn't being taught :(

Yes it is, depending on where you go to school. 50 states are not all the same.

There were classes like this at my school at least.

I haven't been in high school for over 14 years; are they mandatory/required?

No they aren't. It's a shame.

I've assumed the quote was sarcastic. My sibling-comments made me question that, now.

Note: I never bothered to research the context.

Nope. It represents an 'ideal man' that Heinlein pretty consistently praises across his books.

"plan an invasion" - sounds inhuman

I take it as reading Sun Tzu's Art Of War at least once; strategy.

I agree with this quote, but "microspecialization" is the appropriate response. You might specialize on Tuesdays by one skillset, and specialize on Wednesday by another.

I think the following assertion adds a significantly interesting context to this entire debate[0]:

    All programming is Web programming.

Basically, our daily lives depend on the Web. If you do not understand the [process] of what constitutes the Web, you will be utterly mystified and frightened by it. You don't need to know how to change a tire in a practical sense, but if you cannot understand it conceptually...

For example, bank hacks and e-mail hacks. Do you need to understand how to code to change your password? Surely not. Do you need to know how to code in order to change your password in a relevant way? Probably. And doing that involves knowing how to code, in that one learns something minimally about a very interesting concept: abstract dictionaries.

[0]: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/08/all-programming-is-...

Teach people to learn on their own and set their own agenda. Wouldn't that be radical.

Just because we currently teach everyone trigonometry, it does not mean we should also teach everyone X. What exactly is the point of knowing how to code a little, without being very good or proficient at it, which most people won't be able to attain ? But I do agree that every school should have C.S. curricula as an option, not as a requirement

Most people in developed countries need to handle significant amounts of information. Knowing how to code a little (even just simple loops and conditions) allows you to be an order of magnitude more productive.

Which people? Sorry but forget about most people, most programmers themselves don't need to handle significant amounts of information.

Most people need to learn how to cook, first aid, read, basic personal finance, hygiene, basic mechanical work etc etc the list is endless.

You can only chose a few at a time. And even then things are so big these days, you can probably learn one or two correctly if you were to even dedicate years learning it.

The thing is most people don't know what they want to do. That's the reason why schools force you take a variety of subjects so you could find your niche. I had no intention of growing up and becoming a developer, but here I am, all because my friend showed me a few lines of HTML. The idea is to give people a little spark and let them follow through if they want to continue down this path or not.

We certainly don't currently teach everyone trig...

I think everyone should know enough programming to know where programming is an appropriate tool, even if they are not also to wield it, so that they can bring in someone else to solve it with programming, instead of throwing manpower at problems like copy pasting between documents.

Interestingly, you could group your words in two ways:

good (life skills)

(good life) skills

Both apply equally!

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I learned a lot of valuable math skills in public school. I was interested and paid attention. Just because some kids don't want to learn doesn't mean we should deprive the rest of the opportunity.

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