1. I have a little list of companies looking for employees that I'll send you. Not much just companies that have contacted me looking for people. 2. I am a bad ass writer and have a crazy resume, but more importantly I know how to craft resumes and I'll look at yours and help you fix it up. 3. If you're in the San Francisco area I'll meet up with you and listen to what happened and see if there's a way to work out of it, or at least listen. 4. If you email me at help@learncodethehardway.org I'll talk with you and see if there's other ways I can help.
I'm serious, hit me up on email and I'll help out if I can. In fact, this goes for anyone else looking for work right now. Email the above and I'll reply with my little list. I don't make commissions on placement or anything like that, just a good thing to do.
Silicon Valley was built by people helping each other out and paying it forward. The current Atherton/Sand Hill Road, "fuck you I've got mine", NIMBY, crowd seem to have forgotten that.
It's bloody hard to express something sincerely on the internet without sounding like you're just being sarcastic.
Of course, it also wouldn't have spawned a hundred-comment sub-thread.
Zed takes a lot of abuse for little reason.
I debated naming the companies here, but they appear to be failing anyway. Probably because they hired the sort of people who find harassment hilarious.
edit: removed oblique reference to one of the companies. I don't feel like giving those firms any publicity, even if it's bad publicity.
https://github.com/moron5/dongml
Apparently the twitter account referenced on moron5.com is still active and is passively still trying to be a dick
Edit: No, seriously, that "DongML" stuff is like something 4chan's technology board might aspire to, if they could put down their bongs and endless WM tweaking for five minutes in a row.
Notice the past tense. I based that opinion on the many aggressive attacking posts by Zed (for which he is well-known), particularly the attack of Mark Pilgrim (now deleted.)
That impression may be right or it may be wrong, but for good or for bad it's one that I got, and I felt my not mentioning that or hedging it here would be intellectually dishonest.
Note what I said next:-
"but this comment which is sincere, genuine and offered to someone for whom this could be greatly helpful has made me seriously reconsider. Kudos."
Which I really meant sincerely. It was actually meant to be a genuine compliment, but it is really hard to put that across without sounding sarcastic. Ah well.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070418001022/http://diveintomar...
I didn't see you calling Mark a cock after he wrote that. And, let's not forget that when Mark did take his gear off the internet I was sympathetic and told people to not "kick a man when he's down", something I'm damn sure he wouldn't do for me.
So if you're bringing out Mark Pilgrim as your shining example of people I "bullied" you pretty much picked about the worst example ever. Mark was a dick who shit on quite a few people in his day and deserved a little bit in return. Thinking that he was some choirboy that I beat up is a very naive way to view the world, but that's what I expect from someone who builds up mythical opinions of people they've never met.
Anyway, closing this tab now. I've sent out about 60 emails helping people find work and will be looking at about 10 resumes tomorrow in the time it took you to write these little comments. You rock dude!
I got the impression you were being bullying - my whole point here is that I felt I was wrong, and your kindness made me reconsider.
My little comments (indeed they are little, I make no claims otherwise) were actually genuinely and seriously meant to be complimentary while being open and direct about the impression I had.
Actually, please do ignore me and carry on helping people. These kind of arguments are a waste of time, what you're doing to help these people isn't. I admire it.
"Fuck that book...fuck that bad advice, those people are lying... he/she is full of shit" etc etc. That was my first introduction to the Zed, just 5 min ago.
Then, singular comes along and says "I once thought you were a cock, but not anymore, kudos", and that gets a rage-reply from the Joker? Well, that's funny. People are hilarious!
Just because you now have a positive judgement doesn't change the fact that a few hours ago you judged him to be 'a cock'.
Why shouldn't he be pissed about that, and why should he care what you think?
I prefer the former to the latter. Sweeten me up then crush me with reality. A lot of people see the latter and just absolutely stop reading after "You're fucking stupid", especially people with admittedly short attention spans.
That would be the only thing I would apologize for or alter, personally. I understood the sincerity immediately but this is because I come from a long line of men that have taken the latter approach and I have to willfully ignore the negative because I know some positive exists or they wouldn't bother saying a damned word.
To people that know him personally, like myself, Zed is a great guy. My guess at the problem is that his Internet persona took on its own life outside of his control, and it grew to such a bad situation that it was better to not try to feed the trolls and simply put some distance from it.
In other words, let the haters hate and be ignored, stand up for yourself when appropriate, and the good people will eventually acknowledge good deeds and fight for you.
His tweets are comedy gold though -- highly recommend everyone follow him -- @zedshaw
edit: case and point -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6806748
Unless it's his own, like all the FUD he spread a number of years ago about Debian.
Even beyond that, I guess I'm just not a fan of the "it's ok to swear and be harsh to people as long as you happen to be right" approach to life.
Look at how kind and helpful someone like patio11 is, without all the vitriol.
I love this video where he is debunking a lot of which is holy on HN - at BubbleConf 2012 "Peddling Luck": https://vimeo.com/53494258
At around 34:30 he admits he's an asshole in the context of slamming other people's work.
For him to jump all over the person above who called him a cock, well, all I can say is "pot-kettle-black, motherfucker".
"I'm busy helping people, you're busy calling me a cock".
Cry me a river. In the video he gets real busy rubbishing other people's work. Not to say he didn't have some very good, honest, refreshing points. But one needs to be able to take it if one dishes it out.
He's a hoot! Funny, insightful, earnestly well-intentioned and full of ideas that are IMHO way ahead of the curve.
Him reaching out to help is not surprising.
One day, when he is an adult, he will look back on that and really cringe.
Wait, actually I don't give a fuck what you think. I'm busy helping people while you're busy calling me a cock. Fuck you.
I felt you'd appreciate an unhedged opinion rather than me adding a bunch of weasel words like "I had the impression, right or wrong, that you were a bullying cock..."
I meant to say, very sincerely, that I was moved by your offer of help and it very much made me reconsider my opinion, as that gesture of kindness is really at odds with that impression of you.
So - sorry for calling you a cock. I thought what you did here was very noble and I admire it. I just felt there was no other way of expressing what I felt without being cowardly and weasel-worded about it.
Every interaction with someone carries the chance of impact, the closer you get to talking about things related to or stemming from their core values the higher the chance you'll provoke a strong reaction (positive or negative). If you're not willing to potentially (perhaps not intentionally) express a viewpoint that could hurt the other person, then you'll be forever only talking about unimportant gumf or giving half-stated opinions that might not get the gravitas of a situation across.
Looking someone dead in the eye and without ego telling them "You're fucking up right now. Here's why" is a loving thing to do, and I'm thankful that someone cared enough to "hurt me"
Hurting is optional for learning. And personally I think it's entirely disposable.
Second point: Yup, optional just like most tools, and just like most tools there's always a set specific challenges where it can work wonders compared to the rest of the shed.
Your mileage may vary but I'd be very surprised if you can't think of a single lesson you've remembered better because there was some pain involved, we're supposedly hardwired to better remember those lessons, for obvious life-prolonging reasons.
Pain keeps you from touching that oven or from jumping down your balcony, but it's not a suitable tool to drive home a lesson. It holds us back. If you add painful lesson after lesson on top of your "fixed constraints" stack, then you won't be able to freely move after a while.
So you burn yourself taking a casserole out, do you stop cooking? I'd hope not, you just now have the good sense to pay attention when dealing with hot, dangerous objects. We cherish this feedback, both as people and as entrepreneurs, that's one of the reasons we build MVPs
We could go a bit abstract and talk about pain/discomfort (including emotional) as devices, and I could give you anecdotes of when a former boss took me aside and plainly laid out why I could never hope to get where I wanted if I followed my current vector, but as we're anecdueling where's the fun in that :p
Talk to any gymnast and they'll usually be able to tell, if not show you physical remnants of, all the painful lessons they've learnt along the path of self-improvement. Ask them if they'd be half as good if they hadn't made those painful mistakes. Better yet ask them what makes an awesome gymnast, they'll usually tell you it's more about having "no fear" when going for stuff. Of course that's an oversimplification and discounts the years of training and talent, but there's a realist perspective in there.
Yes there will be painful lessons along the way, such is life. Not to go all ad populum on you but it's a fairly standard cliche that the people who can take the experiences, learn from the setbacks and not let the fear of another fall stop them trying will learn an awful lot faster and deeper than if they shy away from anything potentially upsetting. That fear of being upset by something is a personal issue and may limit what someone can achieve.
If a man helps another man, which I consider normal and I thought everyone would, you are "moved" when someone is nice. On the other hand it's a scandal if someone seems unfriendly, even though their actions are kind.
Stop please. And as parent wrote, nobody really cares that you changed your opinion. Opinions are nothing, you know. Actions on the other hand really count.
I know this is just a plea of yours, not an order, but it still comes across as patronizing to me. If you hate going all happy family on someone, don't do it. It will achieve nothing but aggravate them.
Saying fuck normally should be used to create rapport with someone and allowing him to use the word too.
Welp, quite some deep psycho analysis shit here.^^
I can remember the old days when there wouldn't be a week without Zedshaw this and Zedshaw that on HN.
And the very fact I love you is your pure, raw, passionate ethics.
I like you because you do not just ignore dumbasses. You give them a chance to see gravity of their delusion and to repent. If that means taking a dude and rubbing his nose into the poo, then be it.
Zedshaw is like an amplifying mirror. Be nice to him and he will reflect and amplify the niceness. Take him for a fool... Brace down for some Righteous Fury (tm).
Thank you for your honesty. Whether you care or not, know that the people that value it -truly- do (unlike the cooze that reacted on you).
Also, thank you for your amazing coding lessons. Your CLI book/guide is largely responsible for helping me land my current job. I have ADHD:PI and find your "cut through the bullshit" method of teaching INCREDIBLE. I've purchased your Python book and look forward to the experience.
Bullshit.
I assure you that I am very little like Zed -- apart from my fear and opaqueness, I also appreciate the mean as an excellent first-order summary statistic -- and yet I am very sincere in my belief that your response is pure vacuity.
As for the mean as a first-order statistic, we clearly have different values... I like mine better.
Cheers!
Even with all the people shitting on your online persona, you continue to work, you've produce some stuff that people enjoy (learn the hard way), it's really admirable.
You so don’t give a fuck that you replied straight away.
But at least you didn’t have to repeat how busy you are helping people, since the poster you so-don’t-care-about-that you-had-to-reply-to specifically called it out as noble, amirite?
Whether the post was ment ironic or not: golfclap
Can we all please rise above talking about personalities? How fucking drab.
@OP.. it may not help much in your position, but that Man in the Arena quote seems relevant here. Imo you still deserve more respect (all other things being equal) than the vast majority of the world that not only never attempt great works, but actively try to prevent others from trying or succeeding too. Hope that your next endeavor goes better.
You got to know when to shoot a dog...
Life is long so there will be plenty of new chances to swing for the fences if that is what he desires. And if his 3-4 year plan is executed ahead of schedule plans can always be changed.
So, his dad borrows some money from family and friends, keep in mind everyone was talking shit about him now, both friends and family. He took them across state to a rural area and told them that a lot of construction was going to happen here and that he was going to setup shop here. He hardly saw his dad and he doesn't remember a lot about how his dad did it but things started getting better, his dad got a contract with a huge mining company and shit just took off. We were discussing this at his beach house, that his dad bought for him. He said that he remembers the hard times but his younger brothers, think that there was no suffering just happy times and the life they have now. My uncle is now retired and the business is totally family run, he spends more time travelling than anything else.
In tech, we honestly glamorize startups, but what about all the others, the 90 out of every 100 startups that fail or just stay in zombie status. My point is not to encourage the OP to dig in but to let him know that it is ok to fail, many do with families as well but he will bounce back with a good job or something else down the line. Zed has provided that ray of light and hopefully u can turn it into a rainbow!
Good luck man, keep the faith.
Not in the web world it doesn't have to be. It all comes back to the right way and the wrong way to start your business.
The wrong way is by taking out credit, quitting your day job prematurely, spending other people's money, leveraging your family's future, and jeopardizing your mental/emotional well being.
The right way is by creating a system that is robust; a job to pay the bills, allocating some amount of free time to working on the business, focusing on sustainability, refusal to take shortcuts, spending your own money (when it's needed) and not being in such a fricken hurry to get somewhere.
You do it properly by slowly gaining mastery in your business until when the time comes you've EARNED the right to quit your day job and go full time for yourself.
But hell, why would anyone want to do that? It hardly even makes for a good Hacker News story.
I dont know what your trying to add to this conversation but its not helping anyone that reads these forums.
If you have a 9-to-5 and build up clients on the side to the point that you can eventually replace the regular salary, you win. You let the cash pull you into the business, not the business pull out all of your cash.
Honestly, I've had to sluff off clients on the side because I'd rather keep the "real" job for now. But if I was happy with $25-30k a year to start, I could've already made the move. Be patient, bide your time, don't let the cash get in front of your business, and wait until your business selects you. That's good advice.
Also, that's nice of you to help out. I hope he gets in touch with you.
Good luck helping that guy and others that have real problems, wish you both all the best.
Oh - and I suggested Python the hard way to a bunch of people, and those that stuck with it, found it great.
So cool that people are stepping up to help instead of kicking someone while they are down. This guy isn't a failure until he gives up. It just wasn't the right time, and I look forward to a future post where he talks about his next shot at doing something.
Good on all of you to redeem the HN community in the eyes of all.
Thank you.
Just as there are Journals of Negative results [1][2] so too should there be a journal of failed startups. Your detailing of what caused the failures could save thousands of man hours and potentially someone falling into the same traps.
Goal #1 for you right now is to get your family in order and steel the troops for tough times ahead as you get back on your feet.
In short order though you should start simply documenting the process that led to your company failing. Not only will you learn from it but it will help others.
If you are in the DC area don't hesitate to reach out to myself and my family. We have kiddos the same ages as yours so they would have a ball.
[1] http://www.jnrbm.com/ [2] http://www.jnr-eeb.org/index.php/jnr
I'm sure there's plenty of lessons to be learned from failed startups, but even 5 years after my first failed startup, I still don't like thinking about it, least of all documenting what went wrong.
Now, fortunately I do have a venture that's been somewhat of a runaway success, in spite of me. The only truth I can relate do what you must and then get lucky. There isn't some secret method to success(despite what your methodical brain tells you).
It may be survivor bias or whatever, but I still don't like harping on my failures. I know the severe guilty feeling that I get knowing that I not only risked my own but my family's well being possibly, but then again, at least I tried. Life's tough, live to fight another day & survive long enough till you get lucky. I for one am not looking to revisit my failure any more than I already do, it's too traumatic to relive.
I know that feeling. I have failed before and hard. I did however resolve to ensure that it wasn't for nothing by, as your co-founder suggested, dissecting it. What I found was that instead of it just being a downer, I realized how many good things were done and how many exciting developments, both personally and professionally came out of what was at the end of the day a failure.
In the end the margin of failure can be tiny - but I would guarantee that you will also be able to find some massive successes in there as well. Adding to that the benefit that others would take away and I think it would be of great benefit.
We used to have something like that.
I'd wish you good luck, but you don't need it. It sounds like you've already got a wonderful family. That makes you a pretty lucky guy when you think about it.
Just keep your head up, and know that you've got a lot of people rooting for you.
(My solution was to relocate countries, from Victoria, Canada to Silicon Valley. We did this in 2 weeks. Now, ironically, I'm doing a startup, but living back in Victoria.)
If you're a programmer and a US citizen, you have won the talent + nationality lottery. (I'm the former, but not the latter.) If you're both, realize how fortunate you truly are.
One course of action is to...
1. Move to Silicon Valley if you're not there right now. It's a boom, and it sounds like you don't have much to lose at the moment.
2. Go be an early employee at some startup that is funded. Maybe you'll get lucky and it's the next Dropbox or Snapchat. Or maybe you'll just earn good money in a great climate.
3. Consider doing another startup once you have savings or can bootstrap doing consulting. However, bootstrapping takes a LONG time and requires serious commitment.
Good luck! Peter
Perhaps some of us might help :)
Keep it together for your family. Your kids and wife need you right now. You are the pillar of the house and if you stand tall your strength will make the rest of your family emotionally better off.
So you may lose the house. Happens to a lot of people.
Whatever money you have right now or can get, keep it. Stop paying any of your bills, except the necessities.
Who knows how many weeks, months it will be until you are kicked out. Stay in your house until you are forced to leave. When you do have to leave, go get a rental.
Go find your self whatever jobs you can get to get some income coming in. This could be delivering pizza, snow romoval, mowing lawns, etc..
While your doing this, find another software job.
None of this is easy but see this as another start up. This time its literally to start you back up again.
Remember, you are in the States, no matter what happens, your wife and kids will never go hungry. You will provide for them no matter what.
I do not know the level of despair this man has been going through to, but I'm sure this kind of comment will make him feel better.
Thank you for your kindness, world really need more people like Zed and like you.
But I find people who know what it means to be irrational are far more interesting.
On a tangentially related note, what is the moral philosophy around having children? I'm not familiar with this area at all. Is having children generally considered a (or close to) a human right? Because it seems a lot of discussion about social policy (especially minimum wage) revolves around the assumption of supporting more than just oneself.
I want my kids to take risks. I want them to challenge the status quo. I want them to think for themselves. I want them to appreciate the irrational.
I don't care if they get an xbox for Christmas.
It's never possible to eliminate all risk. However, there's a difference between taking a calculated risk, and being reckless -- and reckless people more often than not believe they were taking a calculated risk. This is especially true of people with gambler personality.
(Not making an opinion about original poster - I have no info to base an opinion on. Making a general statement)
It's also perhaps worth noting that yeah, I'm also not making any value judgements on the OP, except to say that sometimes, even calculated risks are subject to sheer and utter failure, and that even playing things extremely safe, unless one has piles and piles of money, could easily lead to bankruptcy-worthy situations.
Just quoting this because it deserves to be read twice.
Hindsight is 20/20, but people seem too often to forget that foresight can go a long way towards saving you from having to stare backwards at a disaster. Hopefully the OP learns from this and makes his future failures (because we all fail, and just doing it once would be an incredibly rare feat) more palatable to himself and his family.
If you're in the Twin Cities I'd like to extend a hand in you running on two legs. I'd also like to help out giving your little ones a memorable Christmas. No strings attached.
I can get you in front of some bigger names here and get you interviews, depending on what you do. tbese
Email is josh@josh.mn
The 5th hit $10M in revenue in 3 years (completely bootstrapped).
Everyone else has great advice here - I just wanted you to know that there are others who have been where you are.
Much as everyone else expressed... if there's anything I can do, please reach out. mmurray / at / MAD Security.
Beautiful way to put it.
We had a shitty 4 months, and it could be longer for you it could be shorter, but go through it and come out the other side. My new startup is now about to close funding, but it only happened because we put ourselves in the position to succeed, not by continuing to try to force something that wasn't going to happen.
Knowing when you're dead is the first step.
To everyone else: I like HN, but I often wish that it really was Hacker News instead of Startup News, and this is one reason why. I worked for a startup for a while, until it folded; now I'm maintaining servers at a university library, making mid-five digits a year, and I'm as happy as I've ever been. I've got stability, I've got low stress levels, I work 40 hours a week and then relax at home or with my friends; and I've got enough money to live comfortably, save for retirement, and have a few luxuries besides.
We need to stop telling aspiring coders that they're not worth shit unless they're taking risks, burning with ambition, dreaming of being billionaires. Some people really enjoy that road, and that's okay, but sometimes taking the safe and easy path is a perfectly fine and noble thing to do.
"Lifestyle business" or even "enjoyable job" are not dirty phrases.
Hitting the bottom after a long fall is the hardest thing you can go through in life. A year ago I was working on my own stupid startup, ran out of money, ran out of credit, wasn't sure there would be another blue sky in my life. Everyone has ups and downs, its the hardest thing to go through.
However, life is not over. It may feel like it, and you may even want it to be. But YOU are still writing YOUR story -- do you want to be the guy who fell and didn't get back up? Fuck no. You want to be the guy who had nothing left and no matter how far down the rabbit hole you go, you find a way back out. You want to be a success. You want it all. You'll have it all someday. Is that day today? No. But because you're still alive you have the chance to make it a reality.
So get back up, find work, pay off bills, and you'll be back in the game before you know it. You're intelligent, smart, driven. Remember -- do not let failure dictate who you are. You're not a failure, failure is simply something that happens to all of us. Learn from failure and let it compliment your decision making in the future. You'll be wiser and you'll learn from this mistake.
Good luck and I'll see you around, Tiger
I got a job as a programmer-grunt. I saved up basically everything I made. After two years my bank account hit $50K and I quit and started working on my own stuff again. Life is so much easier now that I have some cash in the bank.
Burning through credit cards seems like a bad path. It's just not necessary. I remember being afraid I would get addicted to easy money in the corporate world. I didn't. The lifestyle was nice, but the lack of freedom made it easy to quit.
Now, I don't have a family to support. That would of course make things harder. I just wanted to strongly recommend the nest-egg approach to anyone grappling with finances.
It's close to Christmas guys, help this person if you can.
Edit: Also, I noticed you said you're pretty sure you're the opposite of 'us', I can assure you, there's at least another 'failure' to join you, me. I've failed plenty of times in various ways. I used to have a company (not a startup in the common sense though, just a small business) as well some time ago, it didn't fail per se, but I ended up closing it voluntarily because things weren't going in the direction I wanted them to, lots of external factors out of my reach. I felt terrible about it for quite a long time though...now I'm better.
Your to-do list is pretty straightforward:
1) Put your failed startup aside.
2) Find a job ASAP.
3) Try to save your house. Your family would need it. Beg your bank to give you ~extra month until your next paycheck.
4) In about a year you may return to thinking about another startup. Take another year or two to think it over, accumulate some funds, do some part-time research and then jump into your new startup again... or not. Being an employee until you retire is also a good choice.
Same thing with employing someone here, you have to be very sure they'll fit, because it's VERY hard to fire someone.
Bad credit can be overcome with a bigger deposit, higher rate, and proof of income. In the end those things still mean more money in his pocket as opposed to spending a few extra months futily trying to save a home in foreclosure.
2) Moving big family is stressful and time consuming.
3) Generally it's better for your karma if you pay your debts.
If the situation is desperate then foreclosure could make sense. But healthy software developer in the US is hardly in desperate situation even if his startup just failed.
This is more a warning for others who think it is easy, or a fun thing to do. Don't.
Your point is valid but every person's situation is different.
And frankly, its a moot point now. The dude is where he is at. I'm sure he knows better than any of us ever will what went wrong and the risks (good and bad) he took.
Give us a paypal link and we'll gap you.
Zed Shaw may be the most famous, but there is a bunch of us that can do things to help.
On the off chance you're in Australia (or if you just want a someone to talk to about this), feel free to email me at me@vertis.io
Stability is king but it ultimately comes down to happiness and joy. The path the op is on doesn't seem happy and I can speak to that personally. Everyone needs a reboot now and then. I don't expect most startups to succeed 100% of the time but the successful founders keep at it until they find that balance of the right problem to solve and the right attitude to persevere.
I am one like you with a wife and 3 Kids, that at one point couldn't afford bills/payments (exactly during this holiday season), Dec/January and February were the coldest and weakest I have ever felt as a man. Look at your wife and kids for an extremely good amount of energy and inspiration to go on and fight for them.
During these tough times, nothing comes better than believing in that 'one thing' that will always be true, and that is the love for your family. That's what helped me.
Somewhat cliche now, but it is true: It will get better.
:)
'Manthatfell' - You are a very brave person to write something up like this very openly. But, If a Man of the Family loses hope it tears that family apart. Trust me. I observed this very closely. HN Community is so strong, kind and supportive.
You already found a lot helping hands. You are now 'Manthatfellbutgotup'. Just start Running..
I'm now on my third success and each new project seems to get better and bigger, I still launch something that sucks here and there but I enjoy the journey and NOT the attachment to the end result.
I hate to sound all Zen here but failure is normal. I wish I had three kids, wish my wife was pregnant - you lucky man.
Failure cannot live with persistence.
90% of what we do sucks! but that's ok.
You really have no control over your future so enjoy the path.
From one guy that fails to another! @scottsbarlow
I am in the Bay Area. If we share a common grocery store. I'd be happy to send you a gift card for some groceries.
1. I thought that I could use Trolltech QT, when the green phone was coming out, to write apps, etc. The green phone never took off and was horrible to program with
2. I was writing backup software, OSX, successfully. Took on a partner for sales and he essentially killed everything. Sold the source code after a few years of it sitting idle for a few macBook's and misc hardware.
3. Started a 501c3 for storing information and could never get to writing the product with all the administration duties, compliance issues, etc.
4. Started an ISP back in 2003-2005 when I lived in a small town in NY. It was pretty successful. I broke even with all the bandwidth expenses, racks of hardware, etc. Eventually sold for very cheap when I just couldn't keep up with the company that had been in town for ever.
5. I bought a popular text editor and worked on it for years and just couldn't get it to where I wanted it. I always had more to do and just couldn't get versions out. I still have this code and consider getting back to it some day.
1) What was the mission of your failed startup?
2) What was your personal role in it?
3) What city are you in?
Good luck to you and your family - it was a brave thing to do. I pray that you get back on your feet as soon as possible.
I am religious, so I will be praying for you that everything will turn out. Keep us posted, man.
You do what you need to get and your family through this. That's only only game that's important. The rest of this is just icing. If you are in Europe or the Bay Area feel free to reach out to me @kzhu. I'll help if I can.
You tried. And you should try again. You've learned something from this but you won't get a chance to use it unless you try again.
> Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. — Calvin Coolidge
Also, full disclosure, I am the CTO of splitzee.com, a group fundraising platform. I wanted to share the link so that if anyone wants to create a collection for this guy, please let me know so I can make sure that there are no fees and that he gets every penny. Splitzee is a fundraising platform that can be used for any cause, and this type of fundraiser is what we see our site being used for all the time. I don't want my intentions to be misconstrued, I would love to see any collection set up so I can pitch in a few dollars, I just hadn't seen one, and really do think Splitzee would be a great choice. All the best!
Also, remember, you aren't the first Man, Husband or Father to be in this situation and that you are not alone. At this point, make sure not to be prideful and accept the gifts of known and unknown people who want to help you out. None of us made it to where we are without the help of family or the kind words of strangers.
This too shall pass and you will come out even stronger. I am in the New York area and depending on what you do, I might be able to help introduce you to people. You can reach me at rwoodruf at gmail dot com.
1) Document why your company failed and have a PayPal Donate Button. I think a lot of people here will appreciate your sharing and glad to donate. I myself am one.
2) List out your skills and see if any remote work can be arranged.
I didn't get marry or get kids or build any asset because I want a stable career first before I start taking the plunge into starting a company.
Hell I thought about it. And that I can even mitigate the risk to with LLC/INC and I can do it on the side while having a part time or a consultancy job. If my bet doesn't work I can continue to work anyway. My plan was to get a stable and consistence income while having something on the side because it would lower my risk.
Anyway, thank you for posting this and I hope it gets better for you.
The moment you are a family man, things are different, you can still try starting a business but you really need to think long and hard about what you are doing before you make a move.
In fact I would say if you already have a family to support the only business you should start is one where you already have customers lined up ready to pay, or you have investor money to cushion you.
Good luck with everything am sure things will work out.
Hang in there man, you'll be surprised how many good people are out there that are willing to help. Never stop asking, never give in, always remember what you're fighting for. You'll be in my thoughts
And you're not the opposite of everyone here. Two weeks after I soft-launched my startup in 2012, my wife and I separated. This is my _2nd_ divorce, by the way, at age 37. Boy, did I feel like a failure! I was financially ruined, and my startup was put on ice for nearly a year as I battled depression and got back on my feet. I had some dark, dark days, believe me.
Now, though, I have a terrific co-founder (and no, it's not wife #3. Learned my lesson!), and while we're just getting started with sales, things are looking great and I couldn't be happier. Draw on your family for energy and support right now. Make sure you have someone to talk to, be it your wife, a friend, or a therapist. Give yourself permission to put the startup dream on hold, and work at an office for a while.
Finally: Read 'Feeling Good' by David Burns. This book really, really saved my ass. Best of luck, happy holidays, and keep fighting the good fight!
It happens to many, It happened to me. Entrepreneurship as we all know is not easy, if you are financially unstable don't think the world is Goog to end day after tomorrow. It doesn't and shouldn't. Get a relief, get your skills tuned, get employed somewhere and work on your passion and if things work out you can be / will be a success story. However don't Loose hope and passion for what you do. Beat wishes .
And please read up on birth control and family planning.
WTF is that? Did it ever occur to you that they may have intended to have children?
Your comment is not only useless, it's offensive. When you have your first child, you are already bombarded with literature on birth control and family planning. The last thing they need is some person on the Internet making a suggestion that implies their family was a mistake and that they don't know basic things about where their children came from.
Also I did think of editing that part out because I know it makes me look like a giant asshole, but it was too late.
The only moral to be learned is the obvious one: don't risk everything when you have dependants who will suffer.
But, I still hope your situation will be better several years from now.
Almost the same here. Quitted a well paid job, sold my flat giving enough money to live on for a couple of years, moved together with girlfriend starting a webshop and loose plans on freelancing as IT-consultant too.
Webshop not taking off and I neglect to pursue consultants job, thus not keeping myself "warm" in the market.
One year later I form a start-up with 2 other guys. 5 months down the road I realize this is not going fast enough - I'm seriously running out of money, about to sell all I own, which only will pay bills for another 2-3 months.
Miraculous, through a friend, I get a break on a consultant gig for 2 months. Another stroke of luck (and marketing myself) this is followed by another gig for 5 months in a new company and the consultant path now on track with a third gig.
The two co-founders took it were badly I jumped ship, as I were the only techguy, although we had outlined the consequences if doing so (no share of company/product) if leaving within first year.
Lesson learned: Do your math, look at $ burnrate. If you go "all in" you might risk "go all out" if you keep going to long. If co-starting something with others be very clear on terms for quitting, and be sure it's ok to do so.
Scary experience loosing almost everything .... Webshop now very slowly getting tracktion - but still not earning "real money" to live by. Still got some startup ideas, but will be outsourced or groomed as side projects
Best of luck to you. Endure the next period, focus to get a foothold in jobmarket again.
Find a job and take it easy for a while. Rebuild and come back stronger!
It sucks, it sucks big time, I know, I'm in the exact same boat. My business has sustained my family for the past fifteen years and over the past year I have lost clients that have been with me from the beginning due to industry consolidation and pricing pressures. If you hold tough this will pass and you will be stronger than ever. You have that spirit and drive within you. You wouldn't have begun the journey if you didn't.
Please know that this is part of the journey and has no reflection on how you are as a father or husband. Regroup, get back to the basics and try again when the time is right. There are amazing people here that are willing to help others, and among those amazing people is you. You shared your story. Many people, including myself, can't bring ourselves to do that, but the willingness to share your story allows us all to know we are not alone on this journey.
Well, if I step into your shoes it might take me a while to listen to the suggestions of all these people who are genuinely trying to help you. Your brain just shuts off and cant think straight. You need to find a way to somehow let it out. Cant say go backpack for a few days because you have a family to take care of...but try talking to friendly strangers, do something you haven't tried before(in a good sense) that doesn't cost money, just somehow get everything out of your system, try unplugging even if its for 2-3 days and then come back and read the comments again. I'm sure you'll see things much more clear. The help is already here!
That was as honest and close I can get to feel what you might be going through. Having said that, its always easier said than done. God bless you! Dont forget to comment to this thread once you are back up and strong! :)
You also haven't failed yet until you stop trying.
Houses are also never really anyone's until they fully pay it off anyways. In most cases, people are just renting from banks. I don't feel that you really lost anything aside from property taxes.
That said, it doesn't hurt to regroup and get a normal gig for some time. I don't think there's any shame with moving in with either your parents or hers for a bit.
Maybe next time you get the fever, aim for starting an equivalent of a "small restaurant" first before something much bigger. i.e. have a day job and work on your project at nights and weekends.
It's time to get things stable again, and then if he still wants to give it another shot he should do that once the other parts of his life (and his finances) are settled down a bit.
If you're in the Bay Area and an engineer or know SaaS sales, my company's hiring. It's a good place to work. Email john@entelo.com if that might help.
What I did.
1. As much as I swore never to return to work, I got a contract job (6 months). It stung, I wasn't in a good headspace at that time.
2. Borrowed some money from my family to cover the mortgage.
3. Saved my house from foreclosure by 6 hours using the borrowed money and my salary.
4. Kept the business running in the background and working on it at night.
5. Worked for 12 months, paying back everything, enjoying seeing my family eat good food once again and getting the occasional night out. What a treat to go and see a movie once in a while :) I can tell you going to the bottom gives you an incredible perspective on money and not what you think either.
6. Built up my contacts and pivoted my business. Lots of hard work and 2 years later I have 2 offices and a team of 7 people. (this is obviously a longer story, but for another day)
I recommend you get a job for the short term and get your life back in order. I can tell you that trying to grow a business while you are incredibly stressed about how you are going to eat or keep the lights on will only result in panic decisions and they will be bad.
If you have a passion to change the world, your families life and your own for the better, you will get back to business soon enough. Business owners have a burning passion to succeed at all costs and only consider this a temporary set back.
(Just a side note, some people have a fantasy of working hard (but not really), having lots of fun, getting traction easily, getting investment, get bought for a few billion and live happily ever after. If this is your plan, I would suggest setting up a career path, it will lead to a much happier life than a startup, in which the failure rate is very high and you have to be prepared to fail many times. Not work towards failure, just accept it as part of the journey.)
Keep up!! Everything is going to be alright in the end!
Don't give up, keep your head up and keep looking up, then you will find some positivity in your life.
I wish you the best. The best advice I can give you is to hang in there with your life. Strengthen your relationships, life may suck now, but it will get better, just hang in there, one day at a time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
Reading this hits close to home for me. You are are more than the sum of your assets. You are more than a set of skills, and ultimately you still have the ability to go out and conquer. Lean on family, lean on friends, and once you get through this never forget where you've been and help others in the same predicament.
I can't offer much, but if you need a few bucks for a couple bags of groceries email look@mewhenimtalkingtoyou.com and I can send some Paypal your way. No strings attached.
Hold on. Life has a way of bouncing back (especially when it comes to jobs and money). So you aren't CEO material; but who gives a fuck, really. Your family may be the only ones to see through the fog of our culture's toxic emphasis on performance and "winning" -- but they will stand by you, and they will pull you through this. And they are a million trillion times more valuable than the peer approvable of the crummy startup "culture" out there, and the promise of easy, outsized gains that it dangles in front of us.
In my experience the hardest part was that I couldn't separate myself from my startup. So when the startup failed, I was a failure. This was compounded b/c the startup failed in large part b/c of my weaknesses. As a founder we are responsible for all aspects, but we can't be strong in all aspects (I suck at sales).
Take some time to focus on your strengths instead of your weaknesses. Luckily, that is probably the easiest way for you to pay the bills too.
It is going to take some time to rebuild your self-confidence, but it helps to acknowledge that is what is going on.
Good luck!
#1 follow what zedshaw is offering to you and #2 if you think craigslist could help you bring some leads let me know what you can do and I will try to post ads for your service offering for you. #3 if you want to try earning (passive or something) online via some website, I can buy you domain + hosting + any script #4 [removed the text where I offered you monetary help, you must proof you are not a troll]
I guess my point here is, do not give up, but rectify current situation first. I'm sure @zedshaw does provide good helps there.
Good Luck. Blessing from Malaysia.
i myself have been in this situation, although it was my father in your shoes and i was the child. i also remember the police knocking at the door and our family having to pick up and move.
your courage and commitment to chase your idea and pursue your dream is part of who you are. i know it may be hard to see this now, but it is this ambition and bravery that your family will always remember and love you for. as children, we knew that our dad was having some tough times and that there would be changes in our lives because of it, but none of this ever gave rise to any questions of his love. we always knew that our dad loved us, and that in the end, that was all that mattered.
i know its hard to see the good things now, but just remember that your family is there for you, through the good times and the bad. your children will always love and respect you - not for how well or how bad your business did, but for the parts of you that made you give it a shot.
i dont have many resources myself, and even fewer industry connections, but if you are ever in/around the pittsburgh area id be more than happy to lend an ear or do what i can to help.
A few people have told me that it helped them in tough times.
I have a small child and another on the way so I can only guess how you feel right now. Entrepreneurship is hard. Ping me at steli@close.io if you ever need someone to listen.
Now, I live in San Jose. And Thanksgiving is closer, if you happen to live in San Jose, contact me kurei at my website: axcoto.com. I can give a hand, drive you around if you need, and a place to sleep for several days if need.
The company that I'm working for also is hiring PHP Dev. I can referred you to the CEO.
Most of my business ideas don't make it out of the box. One did well enough, about $100k over 6 years, now we are being sued for trademark infringement. Bogus according to several lawyers, but no money to fight it.
Shit happens, fall back, regroup, fight another day.
At this point you do what needs to be done for the family. Take care of them and they will take care of you. Then see if you can figure out what happened and try a new idea.
Did you plan for this eventuality when you started the venture? Can you spare any details about what went wrong?
I'll just say, given the only thing that really matters is your family, what you do from here on out will dictate what kind of man you are, rather than the fact that your company failed.
Fight hard and good luck.
You know life is just the blink of an eye and then we are buried 6 feet under, it doesn't matter, so keep it up, get some savings again and next startup. ;)
It's only money, you have your health, your wife and 3 wonderful children, plus a beautiful promise underway. You can start the next one, loosing the stupid, with less than 100$ these days. A days worth of pay saved at the local burger shop. Pick the parts up and charge ahead. Just remember, no sales, no company. Dont buy the coolaid, fight hard for one thing: sales where sales = cost + profit. En-route entrepeneurs on HN should be following a SalesAndMarketingStarNews.yc.com aggregator if one existed. But if it existed it would most likely filed with BS...
Angel money or VC is not an enabler; it's profits that are. Profits attract all sorts of good things.
Good luck. If you are an true entrepeneur this will resonate. If it does not, get the best job you can get at moment's notice, and immediately start looking for the next one up the latter.
Cheers and good luck! And remember the one infinitely valuable thing you have: time.
Many things that don't kill you can make you weaker - try quadriplegia on for size. Health is closely tied to money and employment in the US. Someone working at "the local burger shop" with three kids can't spare a day's pay - and $100/day is pretty unlikely take-home pay for minimum wage, anyways.
Good luck to you too.
I'm keen to hear what it was. Do you know why it failed? If so, knowing that is very valuable information that is not easily taught. Use that knowledge for your next adventure, and maybe share with us here, so we can learn too?
As others have mentioned, hopefully one day when you are ready you can document. The world needs more documented failures to help us avoid survivor bias.
Stable paycheck for my family might not compare to the ups (and downs) of running my own, but having gone through a bankruptcy (parents) before, I have no desire to go through it again.
Sometimes (probably most of the time) they just don't turn out that way, and the failures have real, life-changing consequences.
"Whatever you learned during that time should be valuable assets/skills in many startups"
I can not imagine for one moment failing in a business, taking a job at a startup, and having the owner(s) or others say "well... you've tried this before and failed - what's your input on XYZ?" In fact, I essentially went through this years ago, and could not find anyone who ever put any stock or value in my failures.
In one particular case it was very maddening because I watched the owners make several of the same mistakes I'd made just 2 years earlier, which ended up in me folding my company. Less than a year after I joined, they laid off half the workforce, then folded later. Try as I might to help in some way (not to take over, but to keep my job!), my previous experience of failure was not a valuable asset to that company.
Maybe it was just all the situations I was in aren't "the norm", but I just don't see it actually happening.
Money will cone back into your life. Be grateful for your health and family health.
This may sound lacking - But - This experience may change you and you family in the better for ways you could not yet imagine.
Shoot me an email at sid_cool1234(at)yahoo.co.in and I can see what I can do for you.
Quite the contrary. This is the norm -- most startups fail, and a lot of them fail horribly (and with personal defaults).
Keep fighting.
It gets better, way better. Keep your family safe and in the forefront and you'll make it through this. I can promise that.
lz = 楼主 ("lou zhu"), which means "original poster" (literally "landlord")
加油 ("jia you") = "persevere"
This is the Internet. People lie on it. This is not novel.
I found his comment a little bit patronizing. Of course its the Internet and all kinds of crazy happens.
We are adults and can make up our own minds one way or another (even if that means donating to an unknown person).
Even the "low-risk" option of the startup job is way too risky for what little upside remains (at equity slices around 0.05%). Regular companies mentor and, when they have to lay people off, provide severance and positive reference (they'll often work with the recruiters who placed you and say good things). Many of these startups use fake "performance" issues to avoid the image problem of an honest layoff, and to fire people for free. (Banks and hedge funds just admit shit's tough, but these startups have to pretend they're always hiring, even when they're cutting. In other words, they prioritize their image over that of those they're letting go-- when they most need the help.) Getting fired with no severance and no reference is, in many ways, as bad as a startup failure. In some ways, it's worse. Startup failure has more short-term financial pain but, 3 years later, you can talk about it without fearing stigma (especially if you weren't a sole founder).
Paul Graham played the game once and won. It's hard to call it pure luck because, if you read On Lisp, he's obviously a very smart man and was, while active in Lisp, a clear 10x-er. However, there are a lot of people just as smart as he is, who end up ruining their lives in this game.
You're not alone, and I'm sorry to hear about it.
Where are you located? Have you considered Austin, Portland, or Baltimore? Those places have much lower COL and you'll make 80-90% of your Bay Area salary.
Startup failed. Founder is suffering. Long live Zed Shaw.
Would happy if he prove me wrong by writing in detail what he did and how did he failed, sympathetic people will be ready to rush money to him including myself, but dont want to be a victim of emotional blackmailing.
What I am fascinated by is the unquestioning support from so many. It speaks to a community with a strong "we're all in this together vibe".
Whether or not the OP is a troll or a psych grad doing research does not change what came after, and what came after to me is the big story here. my2.