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Comment by onedev | Hacker News Reader

Man when I was that age, my only concern in the world was trading Pokemon cards after school. I wouldn't have given up that carefree experience for the world.

I don't know how I feel when I read about things like this.

It starts off as jealousy that the kids started their "career" at such a young age, then respect towards them for the same reason, but then I feel sad because at the end of the day I feel like they're being robbed of a childhood in some ways.

Then I go back and read, and it seems like the kid had a lot of fun, and maybe I'm the one who's lacking perspective.

I don't know. I think it's great at the end of the day. Obviously smart kid, and he'll go places, but I just don't want him to miss out on the more lighthearted times in his life.

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> I wouldn't have given up that carefree experience for the world.

How do people get that feeling? I don't remember being carefree ever in my life. I can imagine being carefree but I also can imagine taking a walk on the surface of Mercury. Childhood is such a crappy time filled with school, illness taking forever, boredom taking forever, being tired, hurt and in pain. Each time I finished some school I felt awesome because I knew I won't have to deal with that crap and those teachers anymore. Best thing about school is that when holidays come you can forget all you learned last year. No-one will ever examine you on that. I remember growing up as progressing freedom to not do the stuff I don't want to do. Life was definitely easier as it went.

The joy I remember from childhood was reading books about physics and chemistry and running experiments in my head. I'd be delighted if someone gave me internship in some lab where I could help with actually performing them.

>How do people get that feeling?

It's more about the nostalgia of childhood and the memories you make as a kid.

Interesting perspective. I had the luck, in hindsight, to have ridiculous amounts of freedom until the age of 16. I was homeschooled with my brothers (and eventually two close friends of the same age) and a fresh-out-of-teacher-school 'teacher' who wasn't very good, but was our friend. We had school at her apartment and then all had lunch at my house.

Then from age 13 on I was allowed to work at home, where I would usually either skip my homework or use the answer booklet to do it quickly. On a given day, I would spend at most four hours on 'school' and then do whatever I wanted. At first I probably abused this freedom, which led to boredom. So very soon, I started reading every book I could get my hand on, learned some programming and spend most of my early afternoons to evenings playing with kids in the neighbourhood.

Then at the age of sixteen I returned to 'normal' life and had massive difficulties adjusting to the regular school system, but I made it through and went on the university.

Experiences such as yours solidify my view that the school system we all grow up with is flawed. It teaches us that learning isn't fun, and makes us do silly things and jump through pointless hoops.

To be fair, school has to deal with all sorts of kids. If others had been given my freedom they might not have gravitated towards learning, and failed horribly upon returning to regular life. But I'm sure there are many like me, and I hate the thought that they had to put up with the kind of stuff you describe.

The thing is, I really like coding, and it gives the same amount of fun as trading pokemon cards probably did to you.

Interning is a way for me to use my skills in the outside world versus just working at home.

> Interning is a way for me to use my skills in the outside world versus just working at home.

> working at home.

> working

...I realize I kind of sound like a dick there. Good on you for the internship and all, but if you think of it as work you're gonna burn yourself out.

Ah who am I kidding you're not gonna listen to any of this, lol. You'll figure it out on your own, I guess, and then take a 4 year break from programming, partying and doing a lot of drugs. And then come back to it after realizing that you liked programming the whole time.

..or you'll just burn out. Or you might get hit by a truck or something.

Curious about your personal trajectory. Did you overwork yourself when you were young?

Not really. My story is kind of unrelated to that little anecdote.

I started coding at like, 12. It was mostly fun little "side" projects like game addons and personal websites. I was praised amongst my friends as the "programmer genius" and I built a reputation online.

Eventually I ended up landing myself a web programming job when I turned 16, ended up hating it. Got another internship offer at 17 at a legit web search company. I hated that too.

I eventually decided I hated programming and stopped going to the search company (eventually got laid off for truancy). I spent my senior year of HS and freshman year of college partying a lot getting bad grades with no real direction.

Then I discovered C.

Or neither...?

Ok i recently realized that i had started game development at a VERY young age. Apparently i was 8 or 9 back then. Me and cousin of the same age, worked on Macromedia Flash. I am not saying we built the most amazing games back then, but it was a start. Sure I had briefcase full of pokemon cards (which i took to trade meetings) but that doesn't mean I didnt have time for game dev. I dont know about OP but for us it was never a "career" thing. It was "play". We had fun making that stuff. Amongst all the other fun things we used to do, game dev was just another one of em =)

The world has changed so much since then. I am only 22 so I think we are pretty much the same age. Kids don't even watch cartoon now. They play games on ipad and make vine videos...

Kids definitely still watch cartoons. A lot. Source: currently watching Regular Show with my 4 younger siblings.

While I agree with your conclusion, one household of data isn't particularly relevant to what most children do.

How about the legion of animation programming that's commissioned every year?

Like I said, I agree with his conclusion that lots of kids still watch cartoons, just pointing out that his knowing a few kids who do isn't proof of this.

To put it into HN cliché phrasing: the plural of anecdote is not data, even if the anecdote matches the data.

How is what yeukhon stated anything other than an anecdote?

I totally think you guys are right about me not having proof either. I think we both can say some people do and some don't, but a lot more younger children are spending time doing things that we once didn't do for those who grew up in the late 80s and 90s - people who grew like from this period of time should had a reasonable access to a machine - be it PC, gameboy or PS1.

Well, it's just patently false. It may be the case in the mind of some in the echo chamber ... but as I seem to almost regularly need to remind on HN ... there is a whole world outside the party line view of what the world is like ... namely, what the world is really like. :)

There's also a lack of cartoons to even attempt to watch outside of the Cartoon Network. Parents were worried about their kids watching too much cartoons, but seem to mostly turn a blind eye to overusing tablets, phones and PCs.

I hear you. But I think its good overall. However, I think it would be nice if the kid was introduced to coding and was coding for fun and not thinking of YC or as michalochurch like's to say "VCistan." I think its good to start from a passion for technology devoid of the echo chamber politics. But he seems like he has a good head on his shoulders ... I would agree though, add more fun and less startup, at least for a few years.

When I was 13 (2005) I would have LOVED to do something like this. I tried to reach out for some experience but all that got me was a job making a website for a local charity (wildlife sanctuary society). I think I was 12 at that time. I already was making my own things but that drove me even further to run projects that I could call my own.

I had an engineering internship when I was 14. Definitely missed out on whatever kids my age were doing that summer, but I was too much of a nerd to even have wanted to do anything else. I think it worked out for the better, and I hope it does for Shalin too.

To Shalin: Kill those SAT's and get into the school of your dreams. It is absolutely worth it.

Thanks for the great advice! I really want to get into Stanford :)

I'm currently 17 and have done internships for both of the previous summers. Although getting experience was both edifying and fun, there was still a huge opportunity cost. I would have preferred to spend a bit more of my summer indulging my personal interests. Although it was certainly a great experience, I'm unsure about whether or not I'll look back in ten years and wish that I had taken advantage of my summers.

As for the second point, I'm not sure whether internships really create an appreciable advantage at elite schools. Based on anecdotal evidence and some cursory research, I would posit that most qualified applicants to elite schools will have one if not two internships for major organizations. Many will have done academic research. I know a guy who is attempting to get his research on binary star systems published (his first choice is MIT). Careers start early.

Internships are definitely desirable things to have, I don't think that they differentiate students. If anything, they are a prerequisite. Trying to get into college is hard. From what I've experienced, I'm not sure if enslaving oneself to the cult of standardized tests is worth it. The OP seems to have a fair idea of what he wants to do, and has a non-trivial amount of ability. He should think critically about whether or not college is worth it.

I would definitely not endorse the long, arduous process of maximizing attractiveness to colleges during one's high school career in the unequivocal way that you did. One's career aspirations and expectations are highly personal things.

enslaving oneself to the cult of standardized tests is worth it

It sounds like you are describing enslaving oneself to the cult of elite schools. Standardized tests are just one stepping stone. Standardized tests are a much smaller issue if your focus is on amazing achievements in the real world rather than the amazing achievement of getting in to a luxury-brand school.

The parent referred specifically to "the school of your dreams," which implys elite schools. The situation is obviously different for schools outside of the top 25.

At the time it was mostly just fun for me, sounds like the situation is the same for him. I think it's a balance, you want to pursue your interests to the point where they show your ability, but also deal with enough of the BS required to get into good schools (like studying for the SATs or getting good grades in HS classes).

College is a great idea because it's entirely possible his interests will change in school (I almost switched majors like 3 times) and for everything other than programming, college is still a prerequisite.

Edit: Oh when I was 17 I also thought applicants were super prepared and it was intimidating. In reality most kids at elite schools didn't have a scary level of preparation, and a lot of those kids with perfect resumes never got in. Admissions are still a mystery to me.

Having gone through the college admissions process, you are sort of correct and sort of wrong that internships don't differentiate students. Having good internships, can, combined with other factors, put you over the top in getting admitted to elite schools. That being said, having good internships does not in of itself get you into elite schools. The only things that in of themselves can get you into elite schools are serious accomplishments - published a research paper, placed highly in a prestigious science fair, started a legitimate charitable organization, placed highly in some other competitive activity, etc.

> I'm unsure about whether or not I'll look back in ten years and wish that I had taken advantage of my summers.

The grass is always greener on the other side. Most high school and college students who did not do internships/research over their summers regret not doing something more productive/useful during their HS summers.

There are a variety of reasons to go to college, not all of which deal with academics and vocation. The social aspect is not to be underestimated.

I was thinking on the same page as you but realized, if I had been introduced the concept of programming and picking up a project to do at that age I would've done it. I mean, I didn't miss out too much since I started programming when I was 14, but I can't imagine that I wouldn't have had as much interest at the age of 12 as I did when I was 14. I guess it all just matters what kind of environment you are surrounded in at those ages.

Great point. The way I see it, the journey will always be better than the destination.

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