My Internship Experience as a 13-Year-Old
shalinshah.me
shalinshah.me
I don't know how I feel when I read about things like this.
It starts off as jealousy that the kids started their "career" at such a young age, then respect towards them for the same reason, but then I feel sad because at the end of the day I feel like they're being robbed of a childhood in some ways.
Then I go back and read, and it seems like the kid had a lot of fun, and maybe I'm the one who's lacking perspective.
I don't know. I think it's great at the end of the day. Obviously smart kid, and he'll go places, but I just don't want him to miss out on the more lighthearted times in his life.
To put it into HN cliché phrasing: the plural of anecdote is not data, even if the anecdote matches the data.
Interning is a way for me to use my skills in the outside world versus just working at home.
> working at home.
> working
Ah who am I kidding you're not gonna listen to any of this, lol. You'll figure it out on your own, I guess, and then take a 4 year break from programming, partying and doing a lot of drugs. And then come back to it after realizing that you liked programming the whole time.
..or you'll just burn out. Or you might get hit by a truck or something.
I started coding at like, 12. It was mostly fun little "side" projects like game addons and personal websites. I was praised amongst my friends as the "programmer genius" and I built a reputation online.
Eventually I ended up landing myself a web programming job when I turned 16, ended up hating it. Got another internship offer at 17 at a legit web search company. I hated that too.
I eventually decided I hated programming and stopped going to the search company (eventually got laid off for truancy). I spent my senior year of HS and freshman year of college partying a lot getting bad grades with no real direction.
Then I discovered C.
To Shalin: Kill those SAT's and get into the school of your dreams. It is absolutely worth it.
As for the second point, I'm not sure whether internships really create an appreciable advantage at elite schools. Based on anecdotal evidence and some cursory research, I would posit that most qualified applicants to elite schools will have one if not two internships for major organizations. Many will have done academic research. I know a guy who is attempting to get his research on binary star systems published (his first choice is MIT). Careers start early.
Internships are definitely desirable things to have, I don't think that they differentiate students. If anything, they are a prerequisite. Trying to get into college is hard. From what I've experienced, I'm not sure if enslaving oneself to the cult of standardized tests is worth it. The OP seems to have a fair idea of what he wants to do, and has a non-trivial amount of ability. He should think critically about whether or not college is worth it.
I would definitely not endorse the long, arduous process of maximizing attractiveness to colleges during one's high school career in the unequivocal way that you did. One's career aspirations and expectations are highly personal things.
It sounds like you are describing enslaving oneself to the cult of elite schools. Standardized tests are just one stepping stone. Standardized tests are a much smaller issue if your focus is on amazing achievements in the real world rather than the amazing achievement of getting in to a luxury-brand school.
College is a great idea because it's entirely possible his interests will change in school (I almost switched majors like 3 times) and for everything other than programming, college is still a prerequisite.
Edit: Oh when I was 17 I also thought applicants were super prepared and it was intimidating. In reality most kids at elite schools didn't have a scary level of preparation, and a lot of those kids with perfect resumes never got in. Admissions are still a mystery to me.
> I'm unsure about whether or not I'll look back in ten years and wish that I had taken advantage of my summers.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Most high school and college students who did not do internships/research over their summers regret not doing something more productive/useful during their HS summers.
There are a variety of reasons to go to college, not all of which deal with academics and vocation. The social aspect is not to be underestimated.
How do people get that feeling? I don't remember being carefree ever in my life. I can imagine being carefree but I also can imagine taking a walk on the surface of Mercury. Childhood is such a crappy time filled with school, illness taking forever, boredom taking forever, being tired, hurt and in pain. Each time I finished some school I felt awesome because I knew I won't have to deal with that crap and those teachers anymore. Best thing about school is that when holidays come you can forget all you learned last year. No-one will ever examine you on that. I remember growing up as progressing freedom to not do the stuff I don't want to do. Life was definitely easier as it went.
The joy I remember from childhood was reading books about physics and chemistry and running experiments in my head. I'd be delighted if someone gave me internship in some lab where I could help with actually performing them.
It's more about the nostalgia of childhood and the memories you make as a kid.
Then from age 13 on I was allowed to work at home, where I would usually either skip my homework or use the answer booklet to do it quickly. On a given day, I would spend at most four hours on 'school' and then do whatever I wanted. At first I probably abused this freedom, which led to boredom. So very soon, I started reading every book I could get my hand on, learned some programming and spend most of my early afternoons to evenings playing with kids in the neighbourhood.
Then at the age of sixteen I returned to 'normal' life and had massive difficulties adjusting to the regular school system, but I made it through and went on the university.
Experiences such as yours solidify my view that the school system we all grow up with is flawed. It teaches us that learning isn't fun, and makes us do silly things and jump through pointless hoops.
To be fair, school has to deal with all sorts of kids. If others had been given my freedom they might not have gravitated towards learning, and failed horribly upon returning to regular life. But I'm sure there are many like me, and I hate the thought that they had to put up with the kind of stuff you describe.
My parents said similar things to me, and I grew to resent them for it.
When I was your age I had days and even weeks during my summer breaks when I would get bored out of my mind. Believe it or not there's some benefit in that. It allowed me to find new ways to entertain myself and definitely boosted/developed my creativity. Try to get bored every once in a while, it feels nice :)
I didn't give up everything in life to be a programmer, but it was my passion (and it looks like it's this guy's passion as well). It is fun. I still played outside, had friends, and lived a childhood. What I got out of it are skills that are in demand, a head start on life, and adult, mature friends who kept me out of trouble and helped me build a fun, happy life for myself.
I owe everything to programming. I was a kid from a small town in Alabama and now I'm a happy software engineer in Los Angeles. I got to go to the first Clojure Conj conference when I was 16, speak at the second at 17, and get an internship that led to a job at around the same time. I met the best friends I could have ever met through it and have had more fun that I could have ever imagined having as a direct result of it.
That said, we're not entirely at odds. It is important to keep yourself healthy and such and not let it completely take over your life. I just felt it important to provide a different perspective on the matter.
Absolutely. But the best programmers are the ones who never wanted to do it for the money anyhow (and got into it simply because it's interesting and enjoyable).
Moderation is key to everything. However...
You can have it all. Being passionate about something breathes life into all aspects of you and the people around you. It's a lot more fun to be talking to a date or a friend at a party who spends his/her time doing something passionately (even obsessively) than someone with no direction and moderate/little dedication. Some personalities are prone to doing things to excess. You see it with athletes, musicians, programmers, and others. Not that all people in those fields are like that, but it's better than devoting your energies to something objectively unhealthy, such as drinking or watching TV.
That said, do remember to eat well and sleep. And see the sun once in a while, and talk to people. Then get back to your hobby/passion/etc as time permits.
Amen.
Your thoughts are a great extension of what I had in mind, agree with everything you said.
However, I used to write code for fun when I was a kid. I still went out with friends, played football, got girlfriends, and did all the usual rebellious teen stuff. However, my downtime (between gaming, watching TV, and other stuff) was spent writing websites and scripts. By thirteen, I was running a fairly sizable web forum, and had written a few addons for vBulletin (albeit, fairly crappy ones). I would have LOVED to work in a real company, working with real developers, and having the chance to work with people that will tell me exactly where I'm going wrong.
I've worked in a few offices where we've had some work experience kids come in, and some that have worked as a part of an apprenticeship. They love working in a real office, and even harsh employers make it as fun as possible.
Imagine my astonishment when I first came to the US and kids in the first and second year of college were doing internships at Google, Amazon and Microsoft. Good on them I suppose, especially getting paid well to do it, but I can't see how it helps much. Seems mostly like a way for Google et al to fish for young talent before they graduate.
Anyway, being as excited about coding as this kid is, maybe this is the best way for him to use his time, but the culture difference is just amusing to me.
>I can't see how it helps much. Seems mostly like a way for Google et al to fish for young talent before they graduate.
There is tremendous value in summer internships. You get to "test out" companies to work for after graduation. You get to learn a ton about actually using technologies in production and/or at scale. You get to learn from engineers who have years of industry experience. You get to work on technologies you would otherwise never work with (e.g. big data) by yourself. By the time you graduate, you will already have 9 months work experience, rather than 0, which makes starting a startup a more feasible option than before. I'm a little bewildered as to why you (or the culture in Europe?) find these internships pointless.
If what you say about the culture in Europe is true, I find this to actually be a competitive advantage for students/companies in the US.
And keep doing what you love. Don't worry about the SAT's your sophomore summer. http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html
Also, a good internship will look much better on a college app than a few extra points.
Sadly, nope, unless you're applying to a high-end private school. I know the UC system doesn't care at all about your work experience, and even if you founded a company when you were in HS, that would at best be worth 150-300 SAT points.
Now that I think about it, it's scary that I still remember this.
Yes, public schools care more about standardized numbers (SAT/GPA), but you don't need a very high SAT score (in strictly relative terms to private schools) to get into a top public school, even the top UCs.
Put it this way: An elite public school might weight SATs 40%, but the median SAT will only be 2000 anyway.
Whereas an elite private might have a median of 2150 with a weighting of 20%.
The fact is that public schools will give more weight to SATs, but the threshold for what above average for admission is already lower.
If you're a fast learner with a knack for pattern recognition, which your internship experience suggests to me that you are, mastering the SAT for you should be as simple as taking the 10 tests in the Official SAT book and going over answers and explanations with someone. That's easily achieved over a few weeks of focused work.
It seems crazy when you consider how much people freak out over it, but I'm confident this works and I encourage you to try it out.
If you have any specific questions about the SAT or the college applications process in general (something I also had a reasonable amount of success with in that I got into all 4 of the Ivies I applied to) feel free to email me.
Stanford, MIT, and the Ivies see the SAT as more of a threshold score. I.E. there's not much difference between a 2300 and a 2400. As long as you have above a certain range, you should be fine. The SAT doesn't make or break people.
My email is adam.davies@outlook.com for more details.
I'm at Ian.carroll@snapstudiodesign.com if you'd like to include me :)
I'm curious to hear about your peers. Do you have a group of friends your age that you hang out with, or do you spend most of your time with older people?
Also, random, but what kind of music do you listen to?
I usually listen to the billboard playlist while coding. http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100
Everything can be seen as work and fun. If you do something for fun it doesn't feel like work anymore.
I started coding with 15 and it was a good time.
I think SV (and maybe modern capitalism) has corrupted the term "intern" to be "an excuse for us to not pay you" without the other benefits experienced by the "intern".
[EDIT] I should clarify that I am a Brit and never heard the term "intern" used outside of my above definition until I started reading US tech news where it seems to be applied to older people as well.