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Comment by TrevorJ | Hacker News Reader

Yes I do, it just comes from Apple themselves. There are several icons you can't get rid of on the iphone for apple products and services.

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I hope you're trolling or joking. Comparing a Pizza Hut bookmark with iOS built-in apps, just wow.

I mean, I knew Apple haters were dense but this is excessive.

Really, I think the same. Comparing just a browser bookmark which doesn't always come in your way with an ever intrusive app and loving crapware just because it's from their loved company? I mean, I knew Apple fans are dense, but this is excessive.

I can't delete your post from Hacker News. Therefore by your logic it's also intrusive crapware.

Sigh.

Aah. You don't pay to come here, and it's not your property. It's a public forum, which by definition has comments from people which you might or might not like :). Here, only the comments which public on the whole like should be there - and that is already the case - if majority doesn't like it, it'll automatically get suppressed. A phone is a different thing - it's a personal property. Only the things you like should be there on your phone. If that's not the case, it's bad - now favoring one more intrusive crapware and cursing a less intrusive one because of a bias, is bad.

Anyway, you completely missed the point of my comment :).

> Only the things you like should be there on your phone.

Moral of the story: don't live in the USA.

Or, just buy an unlocked (carrier free) phone, rooted. That's what I do.

Whatever. I just can't argue with a person that believes an ad is the same as a built-in functionality. I can't understand what kind of logic and thinking is going in your head, really.

Well, you can still order pizza trhu the "ad" app. so let's call that built-in functionality as well, shall we?

How about we call it what it is. Advertising. However you frame it, it's advertising. Is it useful? Who cares. It's advertising. Order a pizza using the app and your telco gets paid. Twice. Being able to remove Apple's built in apps is besides the point. Yes, it's mildly irritating that this can't be done, but it's not the same thing. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

So if a site shows ads for its sister sites it's less intrusive then an ad for a pizza?

What has that got to do with anything? We are talking about an app! Not a blockable ad on a webpage FFS.

no one has paid apple to do that. It is not an advertisement. It is more of like internet explorer built in. Whereas undeletable advertisement bookmark is like having a unchangable wallpaper by some third party.

No. Undeleteable advertisement bookmark is just like an undeleteable advertisement bookmark. It's NOT like an unchangeable wallpaper. Bookmark is not always in your eyes - even when you are using the browser! I am surprised that so many iOS fans have trouble understanding it. The unwanted Apple apps, on the other hand, are ALWAYS in your eyes. You understand the difference now?

Newsstand is spam if you want nothing to do with it. It is an imposition upon the device I own. With Android, I can disable any app I want, even built-in ones (for example, Samsung includes a bookmark provider that adds Samsung bookmarks, which I don't want).

Here's a thought: when all you can do is rail against the "haters", you are in a bad state of mind.

Is the phone app spam if I want nothing to do with it? The music app if I don't listen to music? Get real. There's a difference between Newsstand, which exists because it's very common for touch-device users to consolidate their reading subscriptions (as there is one for music and videos), and bloatware, which third parties pay companies to add to the OS and which detract from the experience.

> Is the phone app spam if I want nothing to do with it? The music app if I don't listen to music?

Yes. This is quite real of me, I assure you. If I can't make it Go Away if I have no use for it, it's spam. As it happens, I've consolidated my reading. It isn't in Newsstand. It should not trouble me if I don't want it, and having a "junk" drawer is a sad non-solution.

The common definition of spam is something that most people consider junk but a few people might use, thus justifying inflicting it upon everyone. Your definition is almost the opposite: something that most people find useful but that you happen not to need. This is an abuse if not outright misuse of the term.

Haha, many people just find it too painful to admit they were ever wrong. So once they say they support a given team, party, church, company they start ignoring all evidence against it.

Interesting how after your original argument (the difference between app and bookmark) was defeated you came up with a new one (percentage of people liking).

I don't think anybody made the claim that no app is spam, only, from what I can tell, that no iOS built-in app is spam. Which is more than lots of Android phones can say about their built-in apps.

Many people enjoy getting political news emailed to them. Many, many people. Yet it infuriates me when it gets forwarded to me because it is--wait for it--spam. It is annoying crap I don't want.

Spam is defined as whether it annoys the receiver, not the sender's intentions. And there's no 'unsubscribe' in iOS.

They aren't blatant advertisements like the Pizza Hut link. There's quite a difference.

True, but at least nothing from third parties

What's the difference? Crapware is crapware no matter who the vendor is.

on a browser, would you rather go with suggestive ads by say google, or have google actually install an adbar that everyone under the sun can spam you with ?

And IMMEDIATELY the fandroids come out and pretend that we should be talking about how bad Apple is. +1 for the comment somewhere about how dense Android fans appear to be.

However bad you think Apple might be, Samsung is far, far worse, just much less successful and slick about it. I had thought the old adage about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" was only believed by halfwits, apparently I was wrong.

FWIW, I was the first one in this thread to point out the app deletion issue on the iPhone and I am an iPhone user and haven't yet owned an Android. Undeletable crapware is crapware whether it is installed by Apple, Samsung or the carriers.

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