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Comment by dribnet | Hacker News Reader

Is there anything wrong with force feeding a cow corn which makes them sick, injecting them with antibiotics so that doesn't kill them, impregnating them so that they produce milk, separating them from their calf at birth (who most likely will be used for veal) causing them distress, and making them livid a horrid life wading in cow shit their whole life until their hoofs are painfully literally rotting?

Yes, what is happening to the civets is appalling. But it's really no worse than what is standard CAFO treatment. It's not entirely your fault that you don't know this because the food industry tries very hard to keep this from you, including pushing for laws that make exposing these facts acts of terrorism.

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I know all of it. What you don't seem to be aware of is that there are a lot of farmers who don't follow these practices. I make an effort to do research about the food I buy and to make sure it comes only from sustainable, non-industrial farming methods.

What I was trying to get at in my question is that there is nothing "safe" about the assumption that ALL animal products are unethical. It's just a blanket generalization that discourages learning more about the subject.

Although most US farms are small farms, they are in decline and also far less productive, so the vast majority (85%) of output comes from large-scale farms.

Furthermore, because the agricultural system and all of the regulations support large-scale farming, small-scale family farms have to work within the system. (eg, http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2009-02-05/more-on-the-s...).

The trend is toward more factory farming, not less, since small scale farms are less profitable, often not covering costs. The difficulty of making small farms sustainable is generally attributed to the regulations, infrastructure, and economic realities increasingly favoring large scale factory farming.

If you doubt any of what I've said here, the USDA and others have plenty of reports available: http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/err-economic-research-r...

I'm glad you are familiar with industrial farming as many people are not aware of how food gets to our supermarkets. However, even in the kindest of farm environments (which, incidentally I have visited first hand) I personally find milk production unethical. Force impregnating a cow and separating - and getting rid of - the calf at birth are not "practices" famers can opt out of, they are the biological and financial reality of producing milk.

I don't know if you can empathize with an animals plight at the discomfort of repeated pregnancies, births, and forced separations from their offspring - or the even grimmer likely outcome of the calf itself, but for me this is not justified by own fleeting enjoyment of a slice of cheese that is completely not necessary for my physical well being.

It's a near perfect generalization depending on where you food shop. Good luck finding eggs from ethical sources at Walmart or Publix.

Yeah, the PETA crowd argument, which gleans over the fact that the cow wouldn't exist to begin with if not for those evil farmers and human carnivores.

These anthropomorphic arguments tend to be the result of emotional immaturity, something you find in small children.

"These anthropomorphic arguments tend to be the result of emotional immaturity, something you find in small children."

Oh, the irony in this sentence!

It's anthropomorphic to think that dairy cows would choose to bear their immense suffering for the sake of the perpetuation of their species (EDIT: because they're not aware of such a concept; survival instinct is all about the individual being pain-averse in an immediate sense), and it's immature to resort to name-calling in an argument.

Cows would probably rather not ever existed than lead the lives they lead.

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