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Comment by WestCoastJustin | Hacker News Reader

Anyone coming here, wondering what happened, there were two presentation which were clearly inappropriate. First one was an app called TitStare, which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination. The second, circle shake, was an app to measure how fast you can jerk your wrist, upload and share your scores, accompanied by a pretty wild presentation.

I think the first one must have been a joke, because titstare.com was only registered today:

  $ whois titstare.com
  ...
  Creation Date: 08-sep-2013

Video of the presentations @ http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...

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>I think the first one must have been a joke, because titstare.com was only registered today:

How does when the domain was registered affect whether it was a joke? The hackathon took place last night through today. I think it is supposed to be a mobile app (if any code actually exists) anyway, so having a domain isn't super important.

Thanks for the details. I've never read an article I learned nothing from like that one. Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally.

> Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally.

As opposed to being done accidentally?

These presentations were, of course, intended to be jokes. In fact, I'm sure they were designed to be harmless, unoffensive jokes.

Who cares?

Children and adults who were rightfully offended were all in the audience. TechCrunch showcasing an app designed to turn objectifying women into a social network is absolutely absurd.

I'm not a woman, but I also don't think that these types of "jokes" are acceptable at any sort of conference. If you want to joke around with your friends, fine. Hell, if you want to make an app called TitStare on your own time and publish it, great--but for an all-ages industry conference to publicize it? That's wrong.

I believe that the tech industry as a whole is doing great work towards being less misogynistic and being more diverse. Stunts like this at well-known events are huge road blocks towards that goal.

I am a woman and I found them funny, but that is my 2 cents :)

Sure, and I'm positive that you weren't alone.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't make joke apps, but TechCrunch should not have let them take the stage.

I'm not sure it's clear what we should discount "joke" apps as not being serious business. After all, they built a place where users upload offensive photos and allow folks to vote and share ... just like 9Gag, Reddit, and countless other legitimate, funded, businesses.

As far as it getting publicized that's on Tech Crunch. We can all blame the perpetrators but I still fail to see how this is a tech thing. News stations get phony phone calls everyday and some of them get through. To some people they are funny, while others are offended. This whole TC mishap is turning out to be a cheap attempt at making the tech industry seem misogynistic. I'll reiterate, it happens in every industry.

Male sexual desire is healthy. Heterosexual men like tits - deal with it. There's nothing "objectifying" or "misogynistic" about it. Jesus, what's wrong with you people? Is a man allowed to even look at a woman or is even that considered misogyny? I like women and no amount of buzzwords will make me ashamed of it!

Reread the GP; it is not arguing with you at all. The issue is the appropriateness of such things within the professional sphere (of which a hackathon is a part.)

> "Sexism aside..."

Well, there's your problem.

Whoops, how did I end up on this stage? I've never even seen this presentation before! Must have been an accident!

(of _course_ they were done intentionally.)

> app called TitStare, which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination

I don't see the problem. Pornography is perfectly legal and big business.

Well, yeah, but at TechCrunch Disrupt? There's a time and a place for this kind of thing and it's not at a generalist startups and software industry conference.

why not? The porn industry has been responsible for a lot of technological innovation on the internet. They were pioneers for electronic billing, for streaming video, for high scalability websites, and for user-uploaded content.

Should we exclude all content with a sexual nature, even if there is good technology behind it?

You have a good point about the porn industry.

If someone were presenting a true technical innovation that happened to be inspired by the needs of that industry, that would not be objectionable as long as the 'product' itself weren't displayed in the presentation. (e.g. this innovation in streaming video software enables 10,000 concurrent streams etc etc)

Though if it were the AVN conference rather than TechCrunch, showing the product would be practically required. You, know, for demonstration purposes ...

The event is keep us abreast of the new products, as it were.

I see what you did there.

it's the misogyny, not the pornography, that's problematic here.

It is pure cringe, hard to watch without feeling embarrassed, neckbeard and brogrammers.

That was absolutely hilarious. I encourage stuff like this. Have a little fun people, nothing to apologize for. Who actually got offended?

I hope you're joking. Besides the flurry of tech presenters and writers in the audience that were offended, a nine year old girl was at TechCrunch Disrupt demonstrating a product. Seeing as TCDisrupt isn't marketed as an 18+ event, it should be held to the same standards as any other public, professional gathering of individuals.

Judging by TechCrunch's reaction, they wholeheartedly agree.

IMHO both apps are tacky, however, I feel the whole thing is clearly a joke that some people found funny and some didn't. In any event, I feel the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

I watched the videos and, while the Circle Shake presentation was cringeworthy, it was very mildly sexual at a conference that's aimed at adults, not children. There will have been people in the audience swearing in casual conversation too, possibly within earshot of the kid. I don't think anybody's equally upset about that though.

Regarding TitStare, I feel as though tackiness has been conflated with sexism. I just cannot see how such an app is sexist, especially given the fact there are plenty of bisexual and lesbian women. Conversely, if there were an app called ManButtStare, I'm really just not sure there would be the same response.

The reason I'm not offended by either of these apps is not because I'm a man (I'm not in the demographic for TitStare anyway given the fact I'm gay), but because the developers' intent didn't appear to be malicious or bad. It just seemed to be a joke that some people got offended over, but then again, I'm not sure why people think the world has to be so sterile so as to prevent people from getting offended.

I'm open to being wrong.

The straight women will still be alienated. It's not as if as long as you're not alienating some women (bi and gay) that it's fine.

It also objectifies women. They're propagating the belief that women are only interesting as objects of men's sexual desires.

They don't have to explicitly do something sexist or racist to have a negative effect. Sometimes negative effect can simply be achieved by inaction or mis-action (action that isn't explicitly wrong, but has overarching negative effects).

The reason why you probably won't be offended by "ManButtStare" is because such a thing rarely if ever happens. You are in a male-dominated tech industry already so you don't feel alienation from that trivial instance of female-centric thinking. The problem with Titstare is it adds (in the wrong direction) to compounding attitudes of male-centric thinking and a male-centric industry, with negative consequences of alienation of straight female participants. This is a negative because there will be suboptimal appropriation of female talent into this sector due to alienation. More and more females will just end up going into fashion or art or English literature so they can join their gay, metrosexual, and non-sexist bffs.

See how I stereotyped fashion as dominated by gay men? Perhaps it is, but by promoting that attitude, I probably just added a little bit there to discourage a straight guy from going into fashion even though he may be good at it. That is bad.

>They're propagating the belief that women are only interesting as objects of men's sexual desires.

Nope. That's just your interpretation of it and says more about you and your biases than it does about the makers of that app.

>The reason why you probably won't be offended by "ManButtStare" is because such a thing rarely if ever happens.

Yep, because women definitely never stare at men's butts. Basically, women lusting after men is okay because... women just don't lust after men? Men, on the other hand, are to be shamed for expressing their sexual preferences. This is sexism at work.

If there were kids there then this was certainly done in poor taste, but clearly this was a prank. As for not screening, I can see how they would trust the good in people but just like anything tech related, you never trust anything user submitted.

Sorry but I really think everyone should collectively loosen up.

Hear hear.

For example, I always drop the n-word when I'm walking around. People should be more like me, I don't get offended by that kind of language, why should anyone else? Sometimes people do, and I'm like, "What? Why're you getting so offended? I'm not offended, why are you?"

I'm kidding. I don't ask "why are you?" -- that doesn't matter LOL 8-)

For some reason, black people get especially offended at this kind of stuff. No clue why. I mean, I don't get offended and that's literally the only thing that matters when considering whether something should or shouldn't be said. Not the audience, the venue or the event.

Literally, only my own sensibilities matter. Everyone else should loosen up. Like me.

Your reply would be entire spot on if the word "tit" and the n-word were equivalent. One is a body part that both men and women share. The other is a racially charged word that has more than a century of really bad history behind it. And, see how both you and I couldn't say the n-word? That's a tip off that it's not the same. I have tits. Yes, they are man-tits but they are tits nonetheless. The n-word, however, isn't something I'll be caught saying except in very specific company (explaining the history to my 12 yr old, for example).

I can't say I agree with the GP post, since I didn't see the presentations being discussed, but I know your comment is off base.

The point is not "N-word == Tits"

The point is that, you, the reader, obviously understand that a word, concept or type of behavior can offend others and would therefore abstain from employing it. Or at least exercise judgment in doing so, because you understand that you have a measure of responsibility when speaking publicly.

The inanity of GP's comments is staggering. He is literally saying that because he, himself, is not offended by such humor that everyone else should similarly relax their sensibilities.

If you understand that some language and behavior can offend others, even if you personally are not offended by it, then you already get the point of my argument. If you fixate on disproving the (not-claimed) equivalency between racial slurs and an app about breast obsession -- then you have missed the point.

The point is that, you, the reader, obviously understand that a word, concept or type of behavior can offend others and would therefore abstain from employing it.

What this really means is that it's not you who should take responsibility for your emotions, it's everyone else that should watch out for you.

What exactly did you get offended by? If you claim that prank was sexist in any way, you clearly lack the ability to judge a situation and its context.

Totally agree dude. That's my stand when I drop racial slurs ("slurs" am I right?)

It's not my job to know which words are going to upset another person's emotional state! I'm not a mind reader! My responsibility is only to say what I want.

Seriously though -- it's absolutely-fucking-hilarious that you think I'm the one lacking situational awareness. The guys who got up and made boob jokes? Total awareness, perhaps even masters of humor.

People who are offended, or can see why it would be particularly offensive to some women -- no awareness. Amazing.

Get to the point and state exactly why you got offended.

I never said I was offended, and that doesn't matter. You said that people should not be offended, and the only reasoning you offered for this was that you thought it was funny. My point is that your singular perspective of the humor is not alone sufficient in determining whether or not it's appropriate for the audience, or whether other people are appropriately offended.

You appear to be saying that simply because you are not offended, nobody else should be -- which is an incredibly stupid position to hold. I don't care to explain to you why breast obsession apps and mock-stroking in front of and all over an audience are offensive to others. I doubt you would get it anyway.

Yes because tit is exactly like saying "nigger".

I'd love to hear what you think are the salient differences between getting up and presenting Titstare, and showing something fictitious like "N-watcher"

Evidently your reaction if someone got up to present the latter would not be "LOL guys loosen up!" -- even though you are not someone at whom the humor/offense is targeted. Why the difference in attitude?

The problem with that comparison is that I can easily imagine some spoof "Racial Profiler!" app being showcased as a joke. Perhaps an app that allows Atherton residents to report "suspicious" behavior.

But I guess the larger lesson here is: do not try these things unless you're The Onion, SNL, or Key and Peele.

I mean, this http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/the-re... was not comedy and it happend all of a few days ago.

I bet you go from 0 to Hitler in under 6 seconds.

Central to your comment is that you are comparing my post to a Hitler/holocaust argument. Ironically then, you have invoked Godwin's Law.

no, I'm saying you are the sort of person who thoroughly enjoys self-righteousness and making baseless accusations about (your perception of) the beliefs of others.

Not going to bother continuing a conversation with someone who gets as offended by tits as they do the word "nigger".

Such a noble stand!

You're not stupid, you get the point no matter how obtuse you're pretending to be. You know that I'm not saying that "tits == N-word" and you know that such an equivalency is not central to or required for my example.

You simply don't want to admit that the only explanation of your position is to say "well black people have a right to get offended by the N-word, but women aren't allowed to object to breasts being objectified."

The prank wasn't brought to light with the intention of offending women. It's a play on an activity with men, we look at boobs. Not everything involving sex is made with the objective of targeting someone, it's just a joke. If you fail to see it as such, that's your problem.

Right on. I have some white friends who, when there aren't any black people around, call each other the n-word. They're not targeting any particular black person, so obviously the behavior is completely acceptable. It's a joke, you know, a play on actual racist behavior.

If you fail to see it as such, that's your problem.

The good thing about this position is that you lack such self-awareness that you would never know the extent to which your limited perceptual abilities cripple you. The bad thing is that you likely do understand the objections here, and are therefore a keyboard jockey. Accordingly, you would never have the courage to make such a ludicrous stand in a public, mixed audience, thereby giving others a fair, advance bozo alert.

Hahaha wow whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better.

Well, aren't we edgy.

Or, just maybe, you should care about the sort of atmosphere and culture that this app contributes to just that bit more.

It really depends on how you view the event. If it is just a bunch of blokes hanging out, I can see (but do not agree!) with your point of view.

If you see it is as even a semi professional event, then I do know how you could justify it.

If professional events are "just a bunch of blokes hanging out", that's a pretty good example of how an industry could be systematically sexist.

You may not have been personally offended, but if you're not able to understand why somebody might have been offended then that really does sum up why lots of people think tech has a problem with misogyny.

The fact 'it was a joke' really isn't an excuse...I'd argue it actually makes it worse.

I don't understand why the presentations in question were sexist/mysoginistic. Immature? Yes. Crude? Yes. Probably shouldn't have made it on stage? Yes. Sexist? I'm unconvinced.

I also don't understand why they were only a problem because they were "sexist". The apps were parodying behavior that well... many men engage in -- which is something you can acknowledge regardless of your gender. The immaturity alone should have been grounds for exclusion. Calling them out specifically for sexism seems to be a little heavy handed.

Were there shots of men's cleavage? Nope? It was sexist by any reasonable definition of "sexism". Pointing that out isn't "heavy handed", it's the truth.

Whoever doxed them was heavy-handed, but since I haven't seen any threat worse than "I will never work with them" apparently not that heavy-handed. There are consequences for performing your sexism for all the world to see.

Let's say I've just spent the last 30 years on an isolated island in the south pacific. Could you define sexism for me, please, in a way that doesn't make it sound like "thoughtcrime" from 1984.

Could you please provide an extensive list of things that are ok to be offended by and that others have to accommodate?

No, because we have judgement. (And any given conference has its own rules regarding inclusivity and anti-discrimination).

>> No, because we have judgement.

Oh right, I forgot that we all have a one, shared judgement and that material that is offensive to one person is equally offensive to everyone else.

>> any given conference has its own rules regarding inclusivity and anti-discrimination

It appears that in this case they did not have these rules, the article says that they failed to "establish clear guidelines for these submissions".

P.S. I find your comment extremely offensive, could you please remove it? Thanks.

Except we don't. There are no clearly defined rules of what exactly defines sexism outside of "referring to women in a a way that makes anyone anywhere feel uncomfortable." It's entirely subjective and based on community, culture and societal standards. It's a landmine with wheels. Even if you stand perfectly still, it could bump into your leg at any moment and, I don't know, annoy you to death with shrill platitudes about patriarchy.

Please read and understand this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

Thanks for posting this! Was looking for it but couldn't find the link. Josh Rehman's comment there is also pretty good:

> This is a great example of what I call "petty injustice". The sheer volume of petty injustice causes far more net harm than "great injustice" but because it happens incrementally it is incredibly hard to combat for precisely the reasons you anecdotally state.

> When someone tells you to lighten up, have a script ready. Something like, "What you just said was one small example in a long-standing pattern of subtle discrimination that I've had to endure for years. In that context, it is not okay for you to tell me to lighten up."

Hilarious if you're a male teenager. Not so hilarious if you're a woman, or the parent of a girl interested in tech, or generally someone who is well aware of the detrimental effect of sexism.

Perhaps the fact a young woman, aged 9, presented her hack at the same event.

Really hope you're joking. If you encourage stuff like this, you should prepare for a long, lonely unsuccessful career riddled with lawsuits.

Offended? No. More like annoyed by the inappropriate (for the setting), lame humor.

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