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Comment by alexeisadeski3 | Hacker News Reader

It is a personal decision though, right?

Some choose more leisure and others don't.

Go talk to some ski "bums" or surf "bums" to see what I mean

Bike bum here writing from Whister, B.C. Work 20ish hours a week for Silicon Valley startups remotely and still manage to actually save money simply by not living in the Bay Area. I have a ridiculous amount of leisure time and relocate whenever I feel like it. I know this isn't possible for most people, but I wonder why more of my peers (and those on HN) don't choose a similar lifestyle.

I've worked for an ISP in NetOps Security and Infrastructure, in this position I assisted in on-the-ground project management of a new high power density addition to an existing co-location date centre, along with being responsible for the day to day running and maintenance scheduling, deployed and managed 55 security cameras across three states including some underlying network.

I've worked in a call centre doing Level 1 tech support for retail customers, Level 2 support (escalations), and Faults & Provisioning of DSL & Telephony services.

I am a welder by trade, I hold a Certificate III in Engineering & Heavy Fabrication, I can weld stainless steel, steel, and aluminium, from light gauge sheet metal to heavy wall pipe, structural steel, I've work on construction 60' fishing boats and 8' aluminium recreational fishing boats.

I have a Diploma in Western Herbal Medicine and a Certificate IV in Allied and Complimentary Healthcare, I've studied, in detail, around 220 herbal medicines (some of which has peer reviewed efficacy studies, others clinically proven, others are tradition), including growing and producing my own liquid extracts.

I currently work 22ish hours a week as a carer / personal attendant to two physically disabled guys. My skill set is unique and I'm highly employable.

Working full time is not all it's cracked up to be. I've done lots of it. I've had three six month 'travelling holidays', four years of part time or full time study with part time or full time work. I've had all sorts of mixes of work / study / holiday / travelling.

It'd be worth noting the context my life has happened in: I live in Australia, we have social security / unemployment benefits (yes, there are "benefits" to being unemployed), and free healthcare.

Edited for coherence.

Wow, fellow bike bum in Whistler. Small world.

Isn't it? I came up with a buddy from SF just to ride for a week... and he ended up driving home alone :( If you see someone coding in the public library, it's probably me.

Ski bum and surfer bum is a decision. Living on the margins of what used to be a middle class isn't. For the vast majority of people in the US, they're working longer hours for less pay, and, as the article says, less vacation.

The idea here at HN is that we can create and do things so that we aren't the paper-pushers and moist robots that make up the 'normal' workforce. In past economic times, their hope for those of us that could make life more productive for the gen. pop. was that we were able to make life 'better' for the majority and able to have much more quality of life than quantity. Even if you are 'allowed' your average 8-10 days vacation how disconnected are you really? A lot of people I know are required to have their phone on or be ready to respond to an email request if it comes in.

A real vacation like in Europe (where many countries equal or better US productivity) might be good for the US economy in general. Talk to anyone that is a creative, that ruminates on new things, and you'll find that most ideas come at the least time of thinking (the shower, a random walk, etc). When we're relaxed and living and letting our conscious slide a bit that sometimes we're at our best in coming up with the greatest thoughts.

IMO, it's more complicated than that.

We live in a more individualistic world than before, but customs are still a big determinant of how we live. The custom among professionals is working 9-5+. I'm saying its a pity customs haven't evolved to take better advantage of our modern wealth.

But, I'm talking about the median. People with kids. Median salaries. etc. There are lots of example of individuals and subcultures that do optimise for leisure time. The 10-4 job for the accounts receivables guy that can do so much more work in a 6 hour day than his pre-computer predecessor did in a week.

"Ski bum" is not an option for people that want to have economic security and maybe buy a mortgage and raise a family.

A <noun> bum is simply someone who has realized they love something in life more than money, and is immune to the FUD of "economic security" - it's not hard to get by with a little intelligence and resourcefulness. These same people (from my experience) tend to be the best parents simply because they can switch from spending their leisure time from <noun> to child.

Economic security and a mortgage are mutually exclusive for most people.

And raising a family is unrelated to both.

> Economic security and a mortgage are mutually exclusive for most people.

Oh wow no. For "most people", a mortgage represents the only means of escape from throwing all your money into a rental trap.

Having access to a mortgage represents a giant step up in economic security.

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