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Comment by mhb | Hacker News Reader

It's counterintuive to me that forcing people to sort their trash will lead to a fondness for recycling. Did the draft engender a fondness for the Vietnam war?

A different approach would be to charge people for trash pickup. If the cost for sorted trash removal is enough of a savings, then people will do it.

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(Living in Sweden)

Actually, the Swedes really do believe in this. Everyone I know conscientiously sorts their trash.

A Swede will happy carry their own bags up to their rooms in hotels, too. Most hotels don't have porters. They don't have the whole tipping thing either generally. You go through life doing things for yourself, not paying others to do things for you.

Maybe its the US psyche and is some kind of superiority complex? I'm half-serious; why do people on your side of the pond think its a hassle to sort their trash?

I think you're dead on with the "boo-hoo god forbid I'd have to sort my trash, raise my own kid, pack my grocery bag, carry my luggage mentality."

Whenever I'm offered these services I feel annoyed - what do I look like, a giant baby? I can carry my own bag.

The larger the wealth gap is in society, the more people become obsessed with comparing themselves to others and the more patterns we see designed to enable them to feel they come out on top in this comparison.

I've never understood porters in hotels. You've just transported your bags for possibly thousands of miles and many hours but they are going to take them the last few meters to your room by elevator on a cart and then they expect a tip for it.

In the civilised days when they began, I assume you had just been chauffeured to the hotel and the chauffeur has handed your bags off to the porter.

Maybe you'd still be wheezing from all of the road dust you'd been inhaling in the carriage the entire ride.

Only the more expensive hotels in the United States have porters. The Courtyard Marriott in Gettysburg, PA doesn't send a uniformed porter to get your bags. As far as porters in hotels in Sweden, most of the luxury hotels do (at least in Stockholm.) Trying to turn this into an "American superiority complex" thing is completely silly. Visit any major city in the world and nearly any full-service hotel in the world and there will be porters -- and it isn't just for the American tourists. I happen to like the Swedes and Sweden, however I hardly consider their culture any more superior than any other. All cultures have value and generalizations of any culture are pretty ridiculous.

man you just love yourself some tangents dont you?

According to what I read about our history, the US tried to get rid of tipping early on, in an effort to have a more egalitarian society, but people couldn't stand the idea.

As far as I have ever seen, most people don't mind sorting the trash, the different bins just aren't there.

In places where there is a single recycling can, I can't remember anyone throwing recycling into the trash can, with righteous indignation, muttering about the extra cost to their personal time.

"Actually, the Swedes really do believe in this. Everyone I know conscientiously sorts their trash."

Too bad they're wrong though. Talk about 'Stockholm syndrome' (get it? I'm so funny)

Are you really under the impression that there are people out there who believe recycling is immoral and will lead to countless deaths?

Sorting your garbage rarely leads to a sucking chest wound.

It's worked in Australia IMO. Everyone takes recycling a lot more seriously than 10+ years ago when it was first on the radar. It's natural now and is done without thinking.

Change leads to awareness. Whether this awareness leads to fondness depends on the context. In the case of the environment, this seems to sometimes be the case. I think young Swedish people have a much greater appreciation of and respect for the environment than our parents.

In the case of the Vietnam war, the awareness clearly lead to - how should I put it - an extreme absence of fondness, as it should have.

its counterintuitive to me that you think something intelligent and good for society like sorting the trash that you generate is even remotely comparable to fighting a war that shouldn't have happened to start with - and spraying agent orange at a bunch of innocents.

I won't defend the Vietnam War, however generalizing the bunch innocents is a bit daft. The US gets criticized for torture yet the US version of torture compared in no way to the torture perpetuated by that 'bunch of innocents.' Let's not even get into that 'peaceful' Communist group just across te border known as the Khmer Rouge. It's stylish to be a Che Guevara-shirt wearing anti-American granola eating hippy, yet Che, the North Vietnamese, the Soviets and every other group idolized by armchair academics were far more brutal than anything ever done by the United States. Yes there were innocent victims, but it takes two sides to make a war. And given the state of Vietnam today (compared to, for example, South Korea) the war seems like it was justified in intent despite the deficiencies of its execution. Bloggers have been sent to prison in Vietnam for simply critising the government. As 'bad' as the US might be, at least we don't send people for prison for speaking their mind. You can still burn te flag if you want, that's your right. The fact that you can't do that in Vietnam kind of proves my point.

Go blame Ho Chi Minh as well for the war that shouldn't have happened. Of course by doing that, you'll likely be kicked out of the organic food co-op.

I prefer that we kept all politics off Hacker News. Nobody cares about my (or your) political views unless they pertain to something extremely relevant to the tech and startup communities.

Your post could've done without the first paragraph - the "I prefer that we kept all politics off Hacker News" was sufficient without the over-the-top generalisations like "anti-American granola eating hippy".

Also the conviction of the North Vietnamese and Che Guevara of the crimes of the Khmer Rouge.

if im an anti-american granola eating hippy (yum granola!) - then you´re nothing more than a stars and stripes boxers wearing nut - who´s gone off on a tangent about politics - the idea was just to point out that theres a very big difference between something thats generally a positive thing - and something that obviously was in a very gray zone. Don´t get your panties up in a bunch and get all ad hominem - the point wasn´t to bash the US - the point was that the poster before me seemed to make a very skewed comparison that just didnt make sense.

also for wanting to keep politics off HN - you failed pretty badly at that mate!

Equating these uses of "force" is an almost troll-like stretch.

It's a standard libertarian scowl of disapproval.

Instead of charging, they simply just leave the trash on the curb if they notice it has too much of the wrong type of garbage in it. Its a little annoying having so many different days when trash needs to be taken out, but sorting it isn't that annoying once you start doing it for a month or so.

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