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Comment by Alex3917 | Hacker News Reader

Although it isn't common knowledge, the recommended best practice for avoiding ticks and other bugs is soaking your clothes in Permethrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3sGvZE3rh4

It isn't very well absorbed through the skin so it has an extremely low toxicity when used in this way, as long as you don't breathe it in or let it get on your skin while it's still wet. It's much more effective and less toxic than DEET, and the CDC recommends it to prevent tick infections. Also don't ever mix it with DEET, because the combination is neurotoxic.

The military actually pretreats all of their combat uniforms in this stuff to prevent malaria and other diseases.

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> Also don't ever mix it with DEET, because the combination is neurotoxic.

Holy crap. I must know 100 people who regularly wear Permethrin-treated clothes and then spray on DEET repellent. I had no idea it was dangerous.

(FWIW, I avoid them both due to general conservatism when it comes to toxic chemicals, especially when the stakes are low -- i.e., the worst-case is itching and not malaria.)

I started doing it only because I've already gotten bitten by two ticks this year and have found another half dozen on me. I'm only outside a few hours a week collecting mushrooms though, I'm not lying with it pressed against my skin for ten hours straight in a hunting blind or doing anything that would cause me to sweat excessively. But yeah, at least in the Northeast it's gotten to the point where going out into the woods wearing shorts is probably far more dangerous than having unprotected sex with random people, at least as far as we can tell based on the limited tick infection statistics.

The tick problem in the Northeast USA seems to vary wildly every year. I've lived here my whole life (31 years, in the southern New Hampshire area) and I've seen tick populations fluctuate drastically from one year to the next.

A few years ago it was particularly bad: I went camping on my dad's land in northern New Hampshire one weekend and we had literally a dozen ticks crawling up our legs within five minutes of arriving. When I awoke in my tent the next morning, the outside of the tent had dozens of ticks clinging to the outside netting, trying to get in. It was impossible to walk anywhere without getting several ticks on you. None of us, including my dad who has lived here 60+ years, has seen it that bad.

In contrast, we were up at the same area a few weekends ago and we spent three days walking through the woods, camping out, and wearing shorts the whole time. The three of us had a total of 2 ticks the entire weekend.

I'm very curious to know what's influencing their numbers.

It could be caused by this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_density_dependence

“Lyme disease is the only infection I know of where we have a safe and effective vaccine, but it’s not available to the public,” says Dr. Allen Steere, the physician who uncovered the disease:

http://www.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

The worst case of a tick bite is far more serious than itching.

Yep. at least in Europe and Russia the worst case for a tick bite is death (from TBE). I am not sure what the worst case is in North America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-borne_disease

EDIT: Seems like some North American ticks can kill you with their neurotoxins.

The most common "bad case" scenario in North America is lyme disease. It's easy to treat if caught early, but is disabling in the late stages (possible outcomes include psychosis).

I don't think it is common for it to get bad, but catching it at all is relatively common if you spend much time in nature around the northeast corridor.

When it does get bad it can be mistaken for ALS. That's pretty fucking bad.

If you live close to tiger mosquitoes, they can spread disease.

Many genera of mosquitoes _can_ spread disease: anopheles, aedes, culex, culiseta. Your risk depends on where you are, how often you're bitten, the prevalence of infection among mosquitoes, etc etc.

> Also don't ever mix [permethrin] with DEET, because the combination is neurotoxic.

Do you have a citation for that? It's well known that permethrin is a neurotoxin to fish and cats, but I've never heard of this DEET+permethrin combination.

NEUROTOXICITY RESULTING FROM COEXPOSURE TO PYRIDOSTIGMINE BROMIDE, DEET, AND PERMETHRIN: IMPLICATIONS OF GULF WAR CHEMICAL EXPOSURES

Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health; Volume 48, Issue 1, 1996

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/009841096161456

Thank you :)

Not beyond the studies that come up when you Google it.

When I travel in areas at-risk for malaria or dengue, I treat my clothes with Permethrin as well.

I also opt for Picaridan over DEET. Doesn't feel as nasty on your skin.

That setup kept me bite-free for three months in Southeast Asia and India.

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