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Comment by smackay | Hacker News Reader

The Russian government is endorsing a meeting between an American dissident and human rights groups - pinch me, I must be dreaming.

It seems that the old Cold War days of political intrigue between East and West are back with a vengeance. What's fascinating is to think about how much this is orchestrated by Putin and how much by Snowden. If it's the former then there is some long term strategy that the Russians are playing (political domination of Western Europe within 100 years, anyone?) If it's the latter then, given all the pressure of recent events, he must be a very remarkable individual indeed.

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Putin or the russian government planing this meeting is less likely than you working for the USA government to spread conspiracy theories in social networks over the NSA case in favor of the US gov by playing the patriotism card.

Never underestimate an entities willingness to engage in blatant hypocrisy if they believe they can benefit out of it.

There's a very common theme on sites like HN or reddit (and I'm not implying you're using it here, but your comment may at least suggest it - if not, forgive me, my comment is not directed at you specifically) that although western governments can be dicks, they are still nowhere near 3-rd world countries' governments when it comes to human rights and other things you, western countries' residents, take for granted.

However, in my view, the thing to realize is that almost all achievements the west made came not from a system of governance, but from individuals continuously restricting those who govern and from the entrepreneurial talent that flourished when government didn't bother them. To say that western governments are somehow better than a Russian government is to be ignorant. They only thing they are better at is lying and deceiving its people about its own importance to the society.

That's simply not true. Western countries have significant differences in structures that enable them to achieve compared to Russia. The key one that springs to mind is a rule of law that courts actually follow. Compare Russia after signing the Helsinki Accords, and it's constitution which had all sorts of freedoms that were totally ignored, to the West.

When you look at recent Kremlin activity like the expropriation of entire corporations, jailing of people like Magnitsky, murder of journalists and dissidents abroad you'll realise that there are no checks or balances in place at all.

The rule of law is a misleading term. If you have money, you can afford expensive lawyers and staying out of prison for certain crimes. If you don't, well, then you're out of luck. That's not significantly different from the Russian system, except that in Russia nobody is delusional about the fact that money IS law. Also, when someone sues you, you're most certain to not only lose your time in court, but also money on lawyers, thus the system can be and is used for legitimate blackmailing.

Finally, US government can jail anyone at any time without trial, even US citizens (Bradley Manning). There is no rule of law.

Re: Bradley Manning -- skim through the UCMJ and the Manual for Courts Martial some time. You may be surprised what you find.

The law may have been followed but the perception may be different. People often (always?) reason in the perception world, then act (in the real world) based on the results of that reasoning.

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I can see Edward Snowden taking your advice, because it would totally work.

It is highly doubtful that goverments could plan a century ahead.

Wise men don't plan; wise men steer.

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Hyperbole and wild-eyed speculation aside, the important point is that I think the train of events playing out will have long term consequences. The most immediate one is the balkanization of the internet as countries and regional groups scramble to put up barriers to keep the undesirables out of their back yards. The US government has probably permanently damaged or perhaps destroyed it's claim to be the leader of the Free World so what and who is going to fill the gap? With weak leadership in the EU and Russia's perennial imperial ambitions perhaps the Kremlin is going to use this to start to drive a wedge between Western Europe and the USA - something it was unable to do during the Cold War. Over a long period of time, with the USA focussing more on China, that would leave Western Europe more vulnerable to (or even accepting of) Russian influence.

Great stuff for John le Carré's next novel.

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