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Comment by ne0codex | Hacker News Reader

Exactly. Shouldn't this be used as incentive for parents and families within those communities to promote school attendance and encourage academic performance?

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Or shouldn't it be used to promote alternative methods of education that are accepted by many employers?

STEM fields by and large are the most friendly towards alternative (or complete lack of) education. A well-manicured GitHub, a decent resume, and not looking like an idiot in an interview trumps most college degrees for mid-level developer jobs that aren't Facebook/Google/etc.

I work for a 600 people company. We are at least one level below Facebook/Google. I once interviewed a guy from Microsoft for a senior position. Everybody liked him. But we couldn't make him an offer because he doesn't have a degree. Blame this on the stupid US immigration policy. If we hire him, we'll have to let go all the H-1B holders, me included, on his team because the logic of US immigration service goes like this: "If you can hire an American without degree for this position, what are these foreigners with degree doing here?".

Interesting, but did the INS really say that? Steve (Jobs') and Bill's lack of university degree never stopped Apple and Microsoft from hiring H-1B holders.

Steve and Bill are the founder of the company, aren't they? Also, for companies as big as Apple and Microsoft, they'll be able to find a position for the guy without a degree. The restriction only applies to comparable positions. Steve Jobs not having a degree has nothing to do with me being hired on H-1B as a software engineer.

Thanks for the pointer, I'll keep this in mind if I consider applying for companies that prioritize hiring H1Bs.

By "STEM fields" you mean "programming". Or do you know of many scientists, mathematicians, or engineers (real engineers, not programmers) who succeed without a formal education?

In bioscience jobs there are definitely pipette monkey -> manager stories, and you don't particularly need much in the way of qualifications for the former.

I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

>I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

I am not. I would have said programming if I had meant it.

ETA: Ironically enough, I am a non-degree holder (dropout) working in a non-programming STEM field. My bio is a bit out of date since I have indeed gotten out of the data science community.

Quite a few. I meant what I wrote, thanks.

If you have a good resume but no degree, that almost certainly means you have job experience. Of course actual experience trumps a college degree, that's why its so hard for new graduates to get a job. I know things are going well on the west coast, but around the DC/MD/VA area most companies are asking for 3-5 years of 40 hour/week experience, a TS clearance with a polygraph, and a B.S. in Computer Science for entry level jobs. They are called entry-level positions simply because they plan on paying you 40-50k even with the ridiculous requirements.

That employment environment around DC is insane. The time-tables that the government operates on would prevent almost any jobless applicant from chasing a job. When I got out of the Marine Corps year before last, I of course applied for many government contracting jobs within my field. Of the 30-40 jobs I applied for that specifically required my unique skill set, I received request for interviews from 25. I applied for these jobs in September, and received the first follow up contact from the employers in July of the following year. Keeping in mind that I have 10 years experience in a very specialized field with a TS/POLY, and extremely high demand for my skill set. Not sure what I am trying to point out except that government job creation would takes years to actually affect change on unemployment numbers.

On a side note, I did find a job with a startup, but that was because of a chance encounter while trolling the right bars every night for 3 weeks looking for that chance. Smiles and handshakes always trump resumes.

I can't speak for the US, but here in Canada everyone is already trying pretty much their hardest to make youth stay in school. Doesn't always work, and we need to have alternative solutions (/jobs) for those who do drop out.

Isn't that what GEDs are for in the US?

Maybe. If the article is to be believed, they obviously aren't being promoted enough. One thing we do have here in Canada is a lot of education propaganda (which is basically the only kind that I like). I suppose in the US that kind of thing varies from state to state.

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