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Comment by cliveowen | Hacker News Reader

As an Italian who was born and raised in Rome, I can attest the veracity of the article. It is in fact an habit so entrenched in our culture that when I first saw some movie joking about this, I couldn't understand what the fuss was about. Does not everyone gesticulate when he speaks? Yeah, but up to a point. Now I recognize that when it comes to talking we are unique in that it seems like words aren't enough to convey a message, hence the numerous gestures. Since when I became aware of this I also learned that it's actually pretty easy to educate oneself no to resort to gestures to speak his mind, even though they're so part of the language that cannot be completely eliminated. I guess that if one were to quickly spot an Italian his or her hands would be the telltale sign.

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I grew up in greater NYC in an area with many immigrants, and I am myself the grandson of Italian immigrants. A teacher in high school jokingly challenged us to sit on our hands while we talked. Without thinking about it, I found myself lifting my butt to free my hand in order to make a conversational point and then sticking my hand back under. Repeatedly.

Much laughter ensued.

Anyway, it seems that the habit transferred to the new world without anyone really trying.

Thanks very much for adding your perspective. The article itself is very intriguing and points out things I just would not have understood, even from 'watching' spoken Italian, as an intrinsic part of the language as it is actually used in its native culture. Having the extra nudge from someone who's part of the culture makes it even more educational.

A warning: this traditional, over-the-top gesturing is particularly common in certain cities and segments of population. (The kind of colourful things that short tourism&culture articles like to talk about.) Elsewhere? Not so much. If you were so careless as to extend this stereotype to —say— the modern urban youth or the well-educated expat, you would likely be mocked as a clueless American tourist, and asked about how many guns you keep at home. :)

For perspective: I was born in northern Italy. Very few people within my social circles ever used any of the traditional gestures; when they did, they deliberately exaggerated the movements for comical effect, or put on a southern accent. Indeed, I have only recently discovered that gesturing is considered to be such a prominent, common feature of Italian culture... by reading English articles about it.

Well, those "segments" include most of the (disgraceful) Italian élite, so uhm. Just watch a political debate: you'll never find one without the making-a-point "vertical-OK" or the please-dont-talk-idiocy "join-hands-in-prayer", be it from Northern or Southern politicians, journalists, pundits, scholars or whatnot.

TBH, one of the effects of living abroad for more than a decade has been, for me, the loss of that smug Northern superiority complex. With all due respect to Giorgio Gaber, any pretence of Northern non-Italian-ness died with the first Berlusconi government.

Ha, thanks. Guess this is me falling for anecdotes; how embarrassing. :)

Andrea de Jorio(Niapoli priest)'s

La Mimica degli antichi investigata nel gestire napoletano (1832)

.... Barzini offered a little sample.... Upon reading [it], you felt that if you could not get hold of de Jorio's book immediately, you would bite your elbows....

(Clive, wasn't that you in Rome when that politician got shot?)

Yep, it was me :P

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