Hacker News Reader

Comment by adaml_623 | Hacker News Reader

This is the problem with the media today. Edward Snowden is not the story!

The story is that the governments are illegally bugging people. They are not stopping the terrorists (Woolwich/Boston). They are harassing legitimate activists. They are not serving the people they are meant to represent.

EDIT: And of course we, the general public, are not free of responsibility either for the media choosing to cover the personal interest story rather than getting their teeth into the politicians who might improve things.

View on HN

Good comment. Reminds me of the paper Avoid News:

"Take the following event. A car drives over a bridge, and the bridge collapses. What does the news media focus on? On the car. On the person in the car. Where he came from. Where he planned to go. How he experienced the crash (if he survived). What kind of person he is (was). But – that is all completely irrelevant. What’s relevant? The structural stability of the bridge. That’s the underlying risk that has been lurking and could lurk in other bridges. That is the lesson to be learned from this event."

Also:

"Terrorism is overrated. Chronic stress is underrated. The collapse of Lehman Brothers is overrated. Fiscal irresponsibility is underrated. Astronauts are overrated. Nurses are underrated. Britney Spears is overrated. IPCC reports are underrated. Airplane crashes are overrated. Resistance to antibiotics is underrated."

Exactly. Americans have too much an Individual focus, not enough Systematic focus. It is to our extreme disadvantage.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. In all those cases, both sides of the story have been told. Indeed, I've seen more articles concerned about the safety of bridges then of the people in the car. You make claims of overrated or underrated. Are astronauts overrated? Are nurses underrated? We seem to be so quick to suggest as such, but astronauts are the public face of Nasa. And the good that has come out of Nasa should not be forgotten.

Overrated and underrated are subjective terms. Without the so-called "overrated" stories, the underrated stories wouldn't be written.

Hell, we're commenting on a so-called overrated story.

The claim that governments are not stopping terrorists is ridiculous. There are people who are sitting in jail right now who have pled guilty to plotting terrorist attacks that were prevented. No, you can never stop all terrorist attacks, but that is a poor reason to not bother preventing others. You are free to argue that current surveillance practices did not actually help prevent these attacks, or that additional regulation and oversight is necessary, or that you'd rather have the terrorist attacks than any surveillance, or that terrorist attacks are really the fault of some U.S. policy that should be corrected, or whatever else you want, but whatever you argue you really should not just avoid reality and invent your own.

> who have pled guilty to plotting terrorist attacks that were prevented

The fact that them pleading guilty played a major part in their conviction should tell you a lot about how much effort was put into getting them to plead guilty, if you catch my drift.

You're correct. Some plots have been stopped. And how they were stopped is important. And that's something the media should be talking about as well as chasing Snowden.

As an aside if I was inventing my own reality it would be a lot nicer than the front page of the Guardian today. While the right-hand story is Snowden the left-hand story is exactly why his leak is so important.

>There are people who are sitting in jail right now who have pled guilty to plotting terrorist attacks that were prevented.

Well that proves it doesn't it! Except that those people were entrapped by the US government. Talked into doing attacks they'd have never actually done sans government involvement and suggestion.

The actual terrorist attacks that have been tried either worked or failed because the terrorist was incompetent. In any case, terrorism is such a minuscule cause of death or injury that there is no reason to even consider it. Just ignore it like the gnat that it is.

>There are people who are sitting in jail right now who have pled guilty to plotting terrorist attacks that were prevented.

I remain skeptical that we were saved from anything, at least in this case. Are there others? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/12/newburgh-four-fb...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Fort_Dix_attack_plot

I, and many others I suspect, would just prefer to have a CHOICE - and some CONTROL of our own lives.

If you prefer the safety and protection of this New America, then you are welcome to it.

But if there were an Old America, an America ruled by the original words and meanings of the Constitution, an America where you could be proud of the goals and ideals of your government, yet humble and grateful that you and your family were part of it - THAT America is the one I would CHOOSE to live in, and the one I would defend with my life if called upon.

> If you prefer the safety and protection of this New America, then you are welcome to it.

He didn't write that, though, did he? He merely asserted that a very broad spying program was likely to have nabbed some actual bad guys. I don't get why people can't simultaneously believe that and also be against all the secret courts and lack of checks and balances, or indeed the spying itself.

I don't know, I find the fact that my government has singled out an individual to harass and torment unfairly an interesting story.

edit:

Also most of the spying program is secret. I think I have heard reports detailing most of what he has released. I have heard several reports on the secret court. There just isn't that much information available as it is all classified.

The Guardian has been releasing the information Snowden has given them and been reporting on it daily for weeks. There are several news companies that have been doing the same.

The problem is that most people are more interested in Snowden (people are always drawn to the human aspect of a story) and that's why he is now getting so much attention.

> people are always drawn to the human aspect of a story

It's not just that. Snowden is staying in the news because his story has had developments. If it keeps "NSA" in the headlines for another week or so, I am more than happy to have The Guardian report on every move he makes.

How is a person trying to avoid being captured by US not a story?

It is a story. It's not the story.

It keeps people on the general subject. That's good.

If the focus tends to turn to "let's hunt this dog down and get him." that's bad.

I'd rather see more focus on why Snowden felt the need to run.

Snowden's past, which has admittedly received quite a bit of attention, is not the story.

Snowden's future is showing future whistle-blowers what they can expect, and is therefor hugely important. I urge any who still haven't to sign the pardon petition (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... - it already has enough that it should officially be responded to, but the more signatures the more likely a real response of some sort). Whistle-blowers are the only check we have against abuses in secret programs, unless you expect our representatives to prefer the public good over that of private companies when only those private companies know enough to make campaign donations based on it.

This is a problem with the media always. Media is entertainment. It's about human stories, not abstract concepts.

A couple of things:

1. Snowden's success at evading capture is important in the long term. It has an impact on the actions of future whistle blowers.

2. Until some new documents are leaked, it's good that the media is keeping the public's eye on the situation somehow.

And of course we, the general public, are not free of responsibility

Right. Hacker News has been dominated by Snowden stories (particularly over the weekend), and far fewer NSA stories.

To be fair to news organizations, the only thing that has changed since yesterday is that Snowden is no longer in the HK. It's hard to get people to read a story without news.

> This is the problem with the media today. Edward Snowden is not the story!

But it's not "the story." It's "a story."

> The story is that the governments are illegally bugging people.

Are you suggesting that this story hasn't been told at all? That the only story that's been told is Snowden's travel plans? Because I've read more stories about the governments illegal bugging than I have of Snowden's travel plans. I'll admit, I haven't counted up all the stories that have been published.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com