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Comment by uvdiv | Hacker News Reader

This is strange, because there are no scheduled nonstop flights between Moscow (any airport) and Iceland. There are flights which make a connection in Europe, e.g. Helsinki, but then there are already nonstop flights to Helsinki from Hong Kong, so what does he gain from an additional landing in Moscow?

(Assuming Iceland is where he is trying to go).

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

http://flightaware.com

(Note that the hub in Iceland is Keflavík (KEF), not Reykjavík (RKV) which mostly does domestic).

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Furthermore, in Russia, he will have to go to the Danish embassy or consulate to get asylum in Iceland. I am not sure how this helps or disadvantages him, but I thought I'd mention that Iceland themselves don't have an embassy/consulate in Russia, but is represented by Denmark.

Dane here. Our politicians will hand him over to the US if they can, but by law they can't if he faces the death penalty or if he is likely to be treated inhumanely.

Bradley Manning’s inhumane treatment would set a precedent in these matters I guess.

The US can guarantee to waive the death penalty in exchange for an extradition. I've read some lawyers think the US is likely to try this.

For some reason the fact that he can be facing death just struck me after seeing you mention it.

Well, he's being charged with treason isn't he? I know treason doesn't really sound that serious to many people any more, but historically it is one of the "big three" that could earn you the death penalty, even in progressive countries that don't like the death penalty. The others being espionage, and of course, murder.

"...For treason turns out to be unique in American law. It is the only crime that the Constitution forbids Congress from defining. It is the only crime to which a court may never accept a confession given to the police. It is the only crime for which restrictions are laid down on how much evidence juries must hear. The Constitution itself underscores that the Founders feared treason law.

...a person has to do one of two things to be a traitor: either levy war or adhere to (form an attachment to, the Supreme Court once said) our enemies, giving them not only aid but also comfort. The two-witness rule has also made treason cases rare in American history."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732468840457854...

"…Snowden’s disclosures may have helped the nation’s adversaries (though I’m skeptical as to how much), but treason requires more than that. It is not enough to release important national security information and consort with the nation’s rivals. Snowden may be prosecuted one day. Barring significant new disclosures and developments, it won’t be for treason."

http://www.volokh.com/2013/06/19/snowden-did-not-commit-trea...

No, so far he's not been charged with treason. The US allows the death penalty for divulging certain types of classified information - for example information directly concerning nuclear weapons, and communications intelligence.

I don't think any progressive countries impose the death penalty at all, but I suppose this depends on what countries you would include in that category.

I don't think any progressive countries impose the death penalty at all

Would you consider Canada progressive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanao_Inouye

I didn't mean it is necessarily like this today, but rather that even progressive countries continued to execute for treason at least partway through their history of progressiveness. It took longer for that piece (death for treason) to die out than most other pieces (like, I dunno, denying women suffrage?). It's sort of an awkward idea to express.

I could start listing, but you should really just peruse this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_tre...

Really? Is this really possible? It's bad enough that this is still on the books, but I'd be pretty damn sure that there would be international relations damage clean up to do for the next decade if that happened.

High treason means you sold out your entire country to an enemy. E.g. if a soldier switched sides in a war, or a spy betrayed his own side to the other. It will probably be the last thing to ever have a death penalty, since it harms so many people and the state directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason

Yeah federal promise papers are't worth the paper they are written on.

There's a pretty strong incentive not to lie here (namely that no country would ever extradite anyone based on promises from the US ever again).

Yes, but I am also convinced that Denmark (I am a Dane myself) must respect Iceland's wishes when they are representing Iceland. Besides, Denmark can make no arrest of him in Russia. I imagine the worst thing that Denmark can do is to simply deny him access to the premises.

Denmark cannot arrest him in Russia, but the Danish Embassy is legally Danish soil. So here he could be arrested.

Trivial to work around. U.S. formally pledges not to execute Snowden (just life in prison!). Then extradition can happen, assuming it actually goes this far.

Why the Danish embassy and not the Icelandic embassy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_Iceland_in_Moscow

I recall researching how to apply for a visa to Denmark from Russia, and I found this statement on the Danish Embassy's website:

> Denmark in Russia represents Iceland, so visa applications for Iceland can be submitted at the Visa Application in centres.

Although, technically, it does not state that you cannot use the Icelandic Embassy, I just assumed they did not, since it said 'Denmark in Russia represents Iceland'. I concede I might have been misguided.

http://rusland.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/menu-1/where-to...

Possible private plane arrangements?

Also: He might have had to get on a plane IMMEDIATELY which probably limited his choices.

The Pirate Party in Norway is claiming he will land in Oslo en route to Iceland.

https://twitter.com/PiratPartiet_No

*However the only OSL-KEF flight today leaves in 20 minutes (16:05 local)

Google translate: Snowden has landed in Moscow on the way to Oslo, Gardermoen. Pirate Party mobilizes support in Oslo when he arrives.

https://twitter.com/PiratPartiet_No/status/34878871367489945...

The is an Icelandair flight from Oslo to Keflavik leaving at 21:55 local time.

My bad, you are indeed correct.

The PP.no claims they are scheduled to meet him, something I have my doubts about.

Could be just a misdirection. See you in Russia! Lands in Iceland.

Deleted comment

I edited my comment to include all of Moscow's airports, not only SVO. Although transferring airports, meaning going through Russia's border police and entering that country, seems an even stranger idea.

Is Iceland definitely his final destination?

No. Nothing has been reported that claims it is definite.

Yeah, as you guessed, the current speculation is something like SVO-HAV-CCS.

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