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Comment by ihsw | Hacker News Reader

That's not my attitude at all, in fact I'm arguing that our options are limited to sitting back and accepting this new way of life or grabbing pitchforks and taking to the streets.

The separation of powers -- separated into judicial, legislative, and executive branches -- no longer applies. We're seeing unprecedented cooperation between all three branches and, put simply, American democracy is dead.

Our congressional representatives are in on it and they're fine with it, the judiciary approved it all, and the executive branch uses it for their own selfish benefit.

When we heard Obama say "no more illegal wiretapping" then we thought he was going to discontinue it all, but he actually looked the other way while congress made it perfectly legal and accepted instead. Very insidious.

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> American democracy is dead.

Hyperbolic bullshit like this is reason #122783278 why I hate to see politics on this site.

Perhaps the statement is a bit dramatic. However, there's plenty of evidence of things not being right. From passing laws with huge holes primed for abuse (Obamacare) without even reading them and telling us "we have to pass it to see what's in it" [1] to blantantly changing votes to suit their agenda [2] and trying to justify spying on us because one day we might become terrorists [3]. Our representative republic has definitely mutated into something very different from what it was supposed to be. Just these three examples make the term "representative" --as applied to those who are supposed to represent us-- laughable.

[1] http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

[2] http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l2sWTwbzAcw "Let them do what they are going to do"

[3] http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/court-order-veri... "in case they became terrorist suspects in future"

> there's plenty of evidence of things not being right

No shit!

Things were never "right", starting from the constitution defining slaves as 3/5ths of a human being. Women couldn't vote 100 years ago. In a lot of southern states, things were still pretty bad 50 years ago, and the idea of a black person being president was science fiction.

You can dig up similar dirt on pretty much any country with enough history. Did you know that in Switzerland, universal suffrage for women wasn't fully approved until the 1970ies? Italy? Berlusconi - need I say more?

Not right, however, does not mean "dead", and those who conflate the two come across as ill-informed, at best.

Having to argue that the US is not just like North Korea as part of any political debate leaves little room for any serious, nuanced considerations.

From a fact based analysis, it's not bullshit. Read your history, look at current situation as data to be sifted through and it's obvious that the reality is different from the popular image portrayed.

Democracies are big, messy, and very much imperfect things. They have good sides, and bad sides, and don't always behave how we think they ought to. Like the quote says, democracy is a terrible way to run a country; it's just better than all the others.

Labeling the whole thing as "dead" is pure hyperbole, and probably a lame excuse not to get involved and do the hard work that is necessary to change broken stuff.

If it were dead and nonexistent, then people would not have been able to liberalize marijuana use in Colorado and Washington, nor approved measures allowing gay people to marry the people they love in several states.

Just because we get a few token gestures, doesn't mean we have any real change. What happens in Washington and Colorado really doesn't affect the people in power and may be advantageous for them to use in the future as scapegoat material.

Democracy seems reasonably alive at a state level. Most of the complaints & problems seem to be with the federal government.

Those are minor issues blown out of proportion to engage the population, divide it along imaginary lines and have them go through victories and defeats and enjoy the show. It's the circus part of "bread and circuses". Real issues are decided upon without ever consulting you. Just IMHO

> minor issues

Wow, tell that to someone who can finally have all the legal rights that most married couples enjoy. Or all the folks on the other side who are convinced that their own marriages are forever ruined and the country on the road to hell because some people can get married.

Still, I think that specific issue is on the radar all the time and addressed by presidents and politicians precisely because of its divisive nature (can be easily used to divide people into warring factions, for historical/religious/whatever reasons). In the grand scheme of things, there are much more urgent problems to be solved. This is not meant to be dismissive of a particular group who have suffered a particular injustice in a particular point in time (there are many such groups and many injustices that are never discussed on a national level and turned into political shows).

EDIT: To clarify, I fully understand that it's a problem that needs to be addressed. I'm against any injustice against any group of people, based on arbitrary historical prejudices or otherwise. I'm just expressing my opinion on how the people who decide which issues to address and how to address them are motivated by political convenience vs actual priority.

You have to accept that the rules of the fight are broken to acknowledge that the fight must be won by breaking the rules, and to act on that you have to surrender your comforts provided by those rules. People will never do that in any state of relative comfort.

As a vindictive mofo, my approach now is to help them step on the nail so I can say 'told you so'. This approach was very fun in respect to the Patriot Act, HLS, etc and the now resulting NSA crap. Join me on the dark side.

#edit well the second bit was addressing the previous rampant down-voting you had received.

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